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in: Consensus track archive

Forum:CT:Naming conventions: Stage names?

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Forums > Consensus track archive > CT:Naming conventions: Stage names?


This page is an archive of a community-wide discussion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made in the Senate Hall or new Consensus Track pages rather than here so that this page is preserved as a historic record.
The result of the debate was Move to Joh Yowza (that is, keep at Joh Yowza) and treat as precedent. —Silly Dan (talk) 04:48, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Joh Yowza's been moved back and forth a couple of times. Bearing in mind that our current guidelines state that we should use the "most commonly known name in universe, sans titles, with later names preferred to earlier names, and full names preferred to partial names or nicknames.", and that we have interpreted this to use Mon Calamari (planet) rather than Dac, Greivous rather than Qymaean jai Sheelal, but Mitth'raw'nuruodo rather than Thrawn, the questions are:

  1. Is Joh Yowza merely a short form of his original name? I say it isn't.
  2. Is a stage name a legitimate full name, or is it merely a alias? As I said on the talk page, "Short of finding the guy's landspeeder operation license or musician's union card, the fact that everyone calls him Joh Yowza is proof enough for me that he adopted the new name."
  3. If and only if people think we should move the article back (and it was 4-1 for Joh Yowza up until Rod's move), does this mean that all characters who end up almost exclusively using a stage name or other alias that could be interpreted as a full name should be moved?
    For that matter, are there examples other than Max Rebo?
    If Yowza's a special case, why? Is it only because his real name is obscure and impossible to spell?

Comments? —Silly Dan (talk) 01:46, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Comments part 1[]

  • You shouldn't bother, If it re-derects from Joh Yowza, people looking forhim will end up there any way. Same thing with Jabba the Hutt and other long namers. I can't pronounce Jabba's real name. It really doesn't matter. -- Jabbathehuttgartogg(Rancor pit) GrappasTattoo-CrimsonEmpireII 01:59, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I'd say the fact that his name is impossible to spell is reason enough! But, seriously, if everyone calls him Joh Yowza then I feel that is where it should stay. I doubt anyone in-universe would call him by his birth name, as they would probably struggle to figure out how to pronounce it. And if anyone was particularly looking for Joh Yowsa on wikipedia, they are going to be looking for Joh Yowsa, not J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx. Just my thoughts. -- beeurd talk 02:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
    • On our last discussion, it was pointed out that redirects take care of people looking for Joh Yowza on Wookieepedia and getting J'etewh'ethijbqri Wereioie Reirjjxblz Jr. However, having the main article appear at Joh Yowza helps people off-wiki find our wiki's article in the first place, and makes it easier for editors to avoid redirects. —Silly Dan (talk) 02:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
      • Obviously, I support having it at Joh Yowza. Think about Cher or Elton John. How many people know them by their real names? Joh Yowza is no different. It's a stage name that was adopted because it was more easily pronounceable and memorable. Any galactic citizen who has heard of this guy would know him by Joh Yowza, not J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx. -- Ozzel 02:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
        • We could interprit Joh Yowsa as a nickname and call the article J'ywz'gnk "Joh Yowsa" Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx, although it would probably be breaking some Wookieepedia standard. Article titles would probably be more useful with nicknames in them for the purpose of searching; I think people get that if it's in quotes, its a nickname. I haven't thought about it much, but a comprehensive reformat might be something to look into. You could make Ozzel's same argument for Hobbie or Dutch or anyone else. Isn't the current improvement drive, Winter, really just a nickname? – Brynn Alastayr 02:26, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
          • No, she's actually named Winter. (I think her parents were Alderaanian artists, i.e. hippies. 8) ) —Silly Dan (talk) 02:29, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
            • LOL, I've always been skeptical, especially since she doesn't seem to have a last name and comes from a culture that uses them. Thanks for the clarification. – Brynn Alastayr 07:07, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
              • No, Think about Meat Loaf, on wikipedia, he's listed as Meat Loaf. You know what, keep his shorter name. -- Jabbathehuttgartogg(Rancor pit) GrappasTattoo-CrimsonEmpireII 02:10, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
                • The full name looks like a monkey was let loose on the keyboard (though not long enough to recreate Shakespeare, obviously). The short name's better. Green tentacle 10:31, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • So... time for a vote yet? -- Ozzel 23:32, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Okay. Please add new options and further comments below. Since I'm splitting the "move to Joh Yowza" up, note that a combined majority from both of them means we should move it back. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  • I must again cite Roche, Jabba, and the rest of the band members. And most Hutt crimelords. And maybe even some rebel pilots who were best known by their callsign. It's a toss-up between keeping Mr. Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx where he is, or moving everything else I mentioned to fit in. Choose *ominous drum music* Rodtheanimegod4ever 02:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
    • Oh, and I need to drop this bomb, too. If we're going by how many people know them as what, I must bring up all the Yuzzum who most likely know him better as Joozgahoozizsmittywerbenjagermanjensenhorowitz. Rodtheanimegod4ever 02:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
      • The difference between Jabba and Thrawn on one hand, and Joh Yowza and Max Rebo on the other, is that the first two have common names which are short forms of their full names, while Max and Joh seem to have adopted completely new names. —Silly Dan (talk) 02:38, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
        • Again, he's a musician. Yes, there are a hundful of Yuzzums back on Endor who know him by the long name, but everyone in the galaxy who knows of him through his music would know him only as Joh Yowza. -- Ozzel 19:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
          • I think we can reasonably assume that in these cases, individuals have adopted completely new names, giving us justification under the "with later names preferred to earlier names" clause. In that sense, it isn't really precedent, but just interpretation. – Brynn Alastayr 19:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
            • Stage names are, unless legally adopted, nicknames. If we have proof that they've legally adopted the name, then I'd agree to have it at the shorter version. However, until then, our own policies say that we have articles at their full names rather than using nicknames. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 21:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
              • I'd be happier with that criterion if I could tell what would consistitute "proof that they've legally adopted the name." —Silly Dan (talk) 21:51, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Voting[]

Keep at J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx[]

  1. Rodtheanimegod4ever 02:13, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  2. With a redirect from Joh Yowza. Emperor Ugluk 16:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
  3. Darth Culator (Talk) 19:30, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
  4. Imp 13:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  5. —Jaymach Ral'Tir (talk) 21:39, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
  6. Muuuuuurgh 21:52, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
  7. .... 02:02, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
  8. Sikon 07:16, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
  9. Yoshi626 20:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
  10. Cull Tremayne 01:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Move to Joh Yowza, but treat this as a special case[]

(You may want to explain why you think he should be a special case here.)

Move to Joh Yowza, and treat this as a precedent[]

  1. (This means Max Rebo, Droopy McCool, and similar cases could be moved to their more familliar stage name.)—Silly Dan (talk) 23:50, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
  2. -- beeurd talk 00:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  3. Ozzel 00:58, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  4. Green tentacle 08:20, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  5. Brynn Alastayr 19:33, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
  6. Azizlight 13:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  7. Keep all stage names. IRL Madonna is not listed under "Madonna Louise Ciccone", Ozzy Osbourne is not listed under "John Michael Osbourne" etc. KEJ 13:10, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
  8. SentryTalk 04:28, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  9. --Eyrezer 08:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  10. Re-directs can only do so much. Atarumaster88 Jedi Order (Audience Chamber) 05:18, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
  11. --Valin Kenobi 11:01, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
  12. --The other name is far too long. MyNz 12:09, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
  13. Use the Basic name. We kept Fett with Basic and not Mandoa (Vhett). —Xwing328(Talk) 17:06, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
  14. Use basic form of names, since Wookieepedia is a Basic encyclopedia. - Fnlayson 20:02, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
  15. --Wildyoda-talk-contribs-Yoda cartoon 23:11, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
  16. Just plain makes sense, IMO. Now, if a SW character arises whose stage name differs from his most-well-known-to-SW-fans name, then we may have a problem <:) Sionay 18:15, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
  17. Three cheers for Rappertunie. Eggmanland 07:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
  18. Stage names, pen names, changed names. Mark Twain. Cher. Benedict XVI. George Freaking Eliot. -BaronGrackle 00:48, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
  19. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 14:26, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
  20. I need a name (Complain here) 22:17, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Comments part 2[]

Another reason to keep Joh Yowza at Joh Yowza: there are two separate gibberish spellings Yuzzum transliterations of his name: J'ywz'gnk Kchhlbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx and J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx. I don't think we have enough information to know which variant is supposed to be correct. 8) —Silly Dan (talk) 16:14, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

  • These votes are really surprising. Can someone please explain to me how names for Star Wars musicians are so different than those of real world musicians? -- Ozzel 23:51, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
    • Because Wookieepedia policy is not the same as Wikipedia policy? jSarek 04:23, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
      • But in this instance, why should it be? -- Ozzel 04:25, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
        • Because we have a very vocal contingent of people here who think real names are where articles should always go. Remember Mon Calamari / Dac? jSarek 07:46, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
          • If we're going by that example, then the article should be at Joh Yowza. -- Ozzel 08:22, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
            • I wasn't pointing to the results so much as to the votes; even in a clear-cut case where we've been explicitly told the Basic word for a topic, we still had a third of the votes going for the non-Basic word just because it's the "native" name. With Yowsa, it's not clear that his stage name is any more "real Basic" than his given name. I'm not voting either way on this one - I think using stage names may be a bit far down the slippery slope, but am not certain about it - but I can certainly see why the votes are coming up the way they are. jSarek 04:19, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
  • On a somewhat different note, I thought Mitth'raw'nuruodo was considered Thrawn's full Galactic Basic Standard name. He just allows people to call him Thrawn because it's too hard for many to pronounce. In this case, however, J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Et'nrmdndlcvtbrx is not Basic, but Yuzzum. —Xwing328(Talk) 23:12, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
    • I support the current "Mitth'raw'nuruodo" title there, but I have a very, very hard time believing it is a Galactic Basic name. -BaronGrackle 00:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
      • Well, think about the odd English names (I can't think of any off the top of my head)... though they may sound like another language, they are still English names. And, he's Chiss, and they may have odd basic names compared to the rest of the galaxy. JorrelWiki-shrinkableFraajic 14:35, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
        • We should move it to whatever his real name is. Look at Max Rebo and Droopy McCool. Chack Jadson 17:09, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
          • The idea was to set a precedent with Joh Yowza, although this vote never closed. However, since it's been open for so many months and there is almost a 2:1 majority, isn't it time now? -- Ozzel 17:22, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
            • Every time I think it can be closed, it seems some one else votes to keep the article at J'ywz'gnk Kchhllbrxcstk Mxyzptlk. Since I've been arguing for Joh Yowza, I won't close it myself, but I think we're as close to consensus as we're going to get. So I second the motion to close, and await another admin's decision. —Silly Dan (talk) 23:11, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
              • Shut the door and make it so. jSarek 01:54, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made elsewhere.
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