Talk: Adira Tal

Latest update[]

A lot has been said on this talk page again since I last posted here. While we, the Memory Alpha admin team, understand that things have not been resolved completely, we do want to clarify some things that have changed in the meantime, and we hope that you will also bear with us as we try to continue to listen, learn, and improve:

• To start, while it may not seem like it due to a relative silence on our part, we are interested in having a discussion about this and broadening our viewpoint, which is why we have been listening, both to what's being said here and to other people outside of Memory Alpha. Could we have linked the relevant forums more clearly? Probably, though the policy change that took effect was clearly inspired by the opinions shared on this talk page.
• Related to the policy issue, we are not blind to people not finding the way to our forums and thus not being able to formulate and share their opinions with the community and influence changes to our policies. To remedy that, we've been working on a system to highlight the active forums on the right rail on our pages. All people will have to do then is click the link and contribute. It is our hope that with that, the bar to participate may be lowered significantly. For now though, please note that all active forums can be found here.
• In regards to the template removal: Several people have also indicated that having only the gender on Adira and Gray's pages is making a spectacle out of them. We previously already indicated our intention to doing away with the gender parameter altogether, which is why we didn't highlight that change when it occurred. I will repeat the statement I made about this on the Template:Sidebar staff to give more context to the matter:

  The rationale for removal of the variable was dealt with previously but to reiterate:

  In Star Trek, on-screen graphics representing character biographies do not list "gender" in the attributes of a character. Wikipedia also does not list this information in their sidebars/infoboxes. Memory Alpha has adopted the direction of these two sources and now does not list gender in the sidebars of characters or actors.

  The only reason why the gender parameter was still in use on Adira and Gray's page was because our resource policy at the time didn't allow for their gender identification to be named in the in-universe section. We only made the sidebar change when the aforementioned policy took effect and thus allowed the mention of non-binary in the in-universe section of Adira possible. The recognition and importance of having that identification explicitly stated is thus safeguarded while also maintaining a uniformity across all MA pages.

  Next, a "high traffic" page includes ones that are included in 8,000+ other articles. This template is used on many articles about production staffers. As such, each time this page is edited, it forces the Mediawiki software to update a significant number of pages across the site.

• We have also heard the cry for community participation and connection. For that, we have been working on setting up a Discord server. It is still a work in progress at this moment, but it is our hope that it can be seen as an effort to open the doors of Memory Alpha for more general connection and less formal conversation without compromising the high standard of quality articles that Memory Alpha is known for. It is intended to be a community project that can grow and evolve over time with everyone's input.
• Last but not least, we also heard your remarks about Archduk3 as a moderator. We did not respond to your request to point you to the relevant forum to launch a formal complaint, as we didn't think it was necessary nor fair to make you all repeat yourselves. We decided to handle the matter internally and demote him from his position as admin on Memory Alpha, as we recognize that his behavior toward the community is unbecoming of a moderator. While some may read this message and think "is demoting him enough?", please bear in mind the severity this blow can have on a user who has been performing as an administrator for more than decade and has been a voracious editor and Memory Alpha expert. He has been a prolific contributor over the many years he has served on Memory Alpha, and we recognize that. Having his rights removed will a considerable loss to absorb. This action was taken with genuine interest for the well-being of our community at large and not to diminish other users. The consequence imposed should be deemed just, as it is not our goal to negate or diminish his other valuable contributions.

While we understand that many of these things may be seen as "too little, too late", for which we will take responsibility, we are trying, for whatever it may be worth. It is our hope that we can continue to move forward in a productive way and that more people will find their way to the relevant sections of the community to help change and grow Memory Alpha.

Finally, moving forward, this talk page should be reserved for updates to the content of the Adira Tal article and not policy discussion. -- Sulfur (talk) 19:28, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

It's great to have this statement, I think communication definitely is thing in various ways to be working on. Now that the change in template has been explained though, I'm happy with it. I also think the action with Archduk3 is reasonable, he's been a longterm contributor who can offer lots of lore knowledge still. Awesome to hear about the discord server being worked on too. AnotherOddity (talk) 21:37, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Echoing AnotherOddity's sentiments in appreciating your post Sulfur. I am glad to hear that things have been going on behinf the scenes, and I appreciate you now sharing them, despite them still being a work in progress. Likewise, I appreciate the action taken with Archduk3. I hope things can only build upon these actions in making MA a happy and safe space for everyone. MadeIndescribable (talk) 23:24, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

surname prior to Tal[]

Tal would not be Adira's surname prior to joining with the symbiont which makes me wonder, given we do not know their parents' names, does Starfleet not assign surnames to orphans and just gives them first names? Tycio (talk) 23:30, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

I don't think that's even Starfleet's jurisdiction. Alkonium (talk) 00:10, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Just because we haven't been told Adira's pre-joining name, that doesn't mean they didn't have one. Think of it like a married character who has taken their spouse's name; just because the audience isn't told the character's "maiden" name, that doesn't mean they didn't have one. —Josiah Rowe (talk) 01:34, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Heck, we don't know Jadzia's pre-joining surname either. —Josiah Rowe (talk) 01:35, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Jadzia Idaris, according to the novels. --NetSpiker (talk) 02:19, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Why is 3rd person plural pronouns being used?[]

Adira Tal is technically one person so there isn’t a need to use they and them. It’s awfully confusing. – The preceding unsigned comment was added by Papistchickeneater1389 (talk • contribs).

Those pronouns are being used because they're gender neutral and Adira identifies as non-binary. Lady Lostris /  SOAP 01:12, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

To be more precise, those are the pronouns that Adira has chosen for themself, as noted in the opening sentence. -- Sulfur (talk) 10:15, 24 July 2022 (UTC)

And this is what happens when someone comes up with a ridiculous ideology. GEP3465 (talk) 22:44, 14 September 2023 (UTC)

...and to each their own.–Gvsualan (talk) 22:53, 14 September 2023 (UTC)