$150 Handheld MiSTer With AMOLED Screen Starts To Take Shape

I'm not interested in this particular product. I am interested either the barebones parts he is doing, or the console. Depending on what exactly that entails, and how much more it is.

Well, I'm interested in this handheld. I know the twin analogue sticks will be essential for some but I'd prefer a variant without them if there's a vertical option.

Does it play the original carts? I'm struggling to see how this is an Analogue Pocket competitor if it doesn't play the carts...

Are people seriously buying an Analogue Pocket and then NOT playing any carts?! Isn't there a thousand devices, each year, that can play roms for a fraction of the cost of the Pocket?! I find this odd lol

We’ll see. It also needs filters. It’s also not a competitor if it’s not fpga. I really doubt an fpga with OLED screen handheld will be $150.

@nocdaes It’s not odd at all considering the Pocket is the only fpga handheld at the moment. All those other options you’re thinking of use laggy less accurate software emulation. Most people don’t notice but once you play FPGA, you notice it going back. I can beat Tyson in Punchout on the Pocket but I wouldn’t even want to try on any of these other options.

I’m happy to see more fpga handhelds coming. It really makes a big difference in playability of these old games that were designed for analog lag less analog crt signals. I know us fpga evangelists sound a little annoying, I thought so too before becoming one, but it really is worth moving to for retro gaming if you can.

@Bonggon5 Actually "Funny Playing" has an FPGA handheld too. You do have to put it together yourself, but it's super simple. It's just a few pieces and no soldering required.

@nocdaes as @Bonggon5 said, those other handhelds you are talking about are just emulators or in some cases a NOAC 😬. I am in a similar boat as the other guy. I have been playing NES games so long, I am super sensitive to lag, and most emulators are unbearable for me, especially ones that run on top of Android, as that OS introduces significantly more lag.

I did have an Analogue Pocket for a while, but I sold it because the Dpad is not accurate (it was designed by 8bitdo and this is a common issue with them). I did put Pokemon Red in at first, but then I decided I didn't want to potentially mess up my cartridges, and used it exclusively with the SD card.

Another advantage is lightgun support. I don't know if Analogue ever got their dock and DAC to work together with light gun games, but I know they said they were going to add that feature at one point. I have used lightguns with other FPGAs in the past though. Not gonna happen on an emulator.

Since there are so many myths about emulation and lag that get perpetuated, I determined the lag myself on Android compared to a Linux PC both using Retroarch. I actually gave the Android tests an extra disadvantage by using two different Bluetooth controllers. The result was exactly the same, typically one or two frames of lag depending on the emulator core. This surprised even me because of the Bluetooth, but I wasn't surprised otherwise as I've seen testing that shows, in most cases, there is no additional lag. Provided there's enough CPU headroom, the lag can easily be mitigated to under a frame even with Bluetooth.

I do find it plausible other emulation software on Android would have the lag described, but I have verified it is not an issue on Retroarch, which really is miles better than anything else anyway.

@Bonggon5 It's a DE-10 inside the handheld, it's a MiSTer. It has CRT, LCD and color correction options and its FPGA based for $150. It's made by the same company that has been producing those $99 DE-10 clones.

@sdelfin The dude mentioned in this article, Taki Udon actually has a video on his YouTube channel where he does an input lag test. The NES emulator he checked on Android had 75ms of lag. Frankly that is unbearable on its own. But the test was done on an Android handheld game device… meaning the input was hard wired to the board and there wasn’t as many background processes going on as a normal Android device. Most people emulating on Android are using a phone and a controller grip that has USB or Bluetooth lag to add in as well.

Greater than 30ms total input lag I can easily feel on NES games I am super familiar with. Greater than 60 ms and I just won’t even bother playing, because it messes up my muscle memory and at that point I am not having fun anymore.

Input lag on emulation is definitely not a myth. It has been verified through thorough tests for years. On top of that you are playing on USB or Bluetooth controllers which both add a lot of lag, and you are playing on modern TVs which also add lag, so add all that to the overhead of whatever OS you are on and the emulator’s own lag, and you end up with a totally different gaming experience for many people who are sensitive to input lag.

For action games I prefer FPGAs that I can connect to a CRT, but even in a handheld its noticeably faster than emulation.

@DestructoDisk I did not say input lag is a myth. I said myths are being spread about it as you are doing and you are disregarding my previous reply where I explained how lag can be reduced. I reduced lag on Android to under a single frame while using a Bluetooth controller just to make it more interesting. I verified this myself and it is easy to reproduce those results. I am well aware of Taki Udon's video as that is also my main source that Android does not add any additional lag in most cases. Yes, the NES emulator he shows added an extra frame(half, actually). But you have conveniently left out that the other emulators he tested showed no difference whatsoever and that his conclusion doesn't support your assertion. If it was as simple as Android adding lag, they would have all shown that.

Another misconception is that those numbers you cite, such as 75ms, are purely input lag. That's total lag. Even original hardware on a CRT has a tiny bit of lag. The games themselves have a certain amount built into them too. The 75ms is the total of all sources of lag.

As I have said previously, I tested the lag in Retroarch myself on both Linux and Android. It has the ability to advance frame by frame. I literally counted the frames of lag. In most of the emulators I tried, the additional input lag was a single frame, meaning that an action happened on the second frame(between 16ms and 33ms additional). You might find that uncomfortable to play and that's fine, but it's not heavy. It was also the same on Android with Bluetooth. Some emulators that had two additional frames. But the "run ahead" feature can eliminate it. This has been verified by many people for years as the feature is not new. I did it myself. To be absolutely clear, using an Android tablet with Retroarch(SNES, NES, Genesis, Arcade) and Bluetooth controllers I was able to reduce the lag(which was typically one additional frame, or two in some cases which was the same as desktop Linux with USB) to under a single frame, meaning that the input action would happen on the very next frame of video. That's under 16.6ms and can't be any lower unless you're using a CRT and the game polls inputs a specific way. Again, everything I said is completely verifiable. This is why I refer to myths.

I want to be clear on something else. I have no issue with you personally. I think FPGA is a great option for people that want it. I don't want to try to convert you or anyone else from it. I used to be interested in it as a concept. But it's also not magic. I think there are some that might be steered towards it solely because of misinformation regarding software emulation. I don't want people to think they need hardware they don't otherwise want because of misconceptions on this topic, and I have demonstrated that this is a huge misconception. The real surprise to me here was that my Bluetooth controllers, two early 8bitdo controllers from 2015 and 2016, added no additional lag whatsoever. Now, we both know they have some lag, but it's clearly under 16.6ms since the only thing that matters for this is number or frames, so effectively they are zero lag. Even if they weren't, any additional frames could be removed with the "run ahead" feature. There's really not more to say other than try it for yourself if you won't take my word for it. Or go see it demonstrated in a video. You'll see that I'm correct in what I have said.

Another bloody handheld.
No thanks. ill pass, i'd rather hook one of these up to a screen.

@Bonggon5 There's that FPGBC thing.

@DestructoDisk I bought one of those kits and got a defective board. I exchanged it and the second board wouldn't load games. It's so annoying. I ended up getting a refund but I really wanted to love it.

@nocdaes I want the accuracy of FPGA without needing to spend tons of money on carts. Software emulation on other devices is not the same.

@SteveFox Why aren't you interested?

Wake me up when there's a picture of the actual thing, rather than Tinder-esque ultra-zoomed shots of tiny parts of it. I'm interested in the product, but I'm not going to ooh and aah over pictures of rendered buttons.

I bought an LG oled TV, and the burn-in and color degradation was terrible. Micro-LED is the next step in technology. Retro games especially will destroy this screen quickly. It's not if, but when. When will you first see it? When will it no longer be tolerable?

@KitsuneNight There is really only 2 current FPGA handhelds that I know of currently available. Unless you mean handhelds in general, which would be odd since this is a specific niche. Would someone say the same when a new phone comes out? Another bloody handheld.. plays games too. Or a PS6 comes out? Another bloody Roku.. streams videos..

FPGA handhelds are a tiny device lineup. I realize you may not care about the differences of an FPGA and an emulation device, but that still is a weird take.