JENNIFER MILLS, BYLINE: The following program was taped in front of an audience of real live people.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
BILL KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I'm the man whose voice is bigger than John Hancock's signature.
(APPLAUSE)
KURTIS: Bill Kurtis. And here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in downtown Chicago, Ill., Peter Sagal.
PETER SAGAL, HOST:
Thank you, Bill.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Thank you, everybody. Thank you all so much. We are taking this week off to celebrate "Independence Day." Not the holiday, the movie.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Every year, we here all gather with family and friends and listen to Bill show us how President Whitmore's speech from that movie should be done.
KURTIS: (As President Whitmore) We will not go quietly into the night. We will not vanish without a fight. We're going to survive. Today, we celebrate our Independence Day.
SAGAL: There you go.
(CHEERING)
SAGAL: I mean, the aliens would have surrendered without a fight, right? So while Bill's doing his vocal warm-ups, we're reaching into the archive for fireworks from our past interviews.
KURTIS: In 2018, we were joined by the actor H. Jon Benjamin. And if you don't know who he is, you will as soon as you hear his voice.
SAGAL: As the voice of both the animated super spy Archer and of Bob of "Bob's Burgers," I asked him which character was most like him.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
H JON BENJAMIN: Yeah. I mean, I think it sort of does follow the currents of my life. I started as Archer, and now I'm a little more Bob.
SAGAL: You're a little more Bob.
BENJAMIN: Yeah.
SAGAL: And I'm just going to say this. They sound exactly alike.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: I mean, I don't think you're hearing the subtle differences.
SAGAL: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Could you demonstrate? Because...
PAULA POUNDSTONE: Yeah. Do a quote from Archer, and then do a quote from Bob. We'll be the judge.
SAGAL: All right. Go for it.
BENJAMIN: All right, here we go. Ready?
SAGAL: Yes.
POUNDSTONE: Yeah.
BENJAMIN: (As Sterling Archer) I would like a strawberry milkshake and an apple pie.
POUNDSTONE: Wow.
BRIAN BABYLON: Who was that?
SAGAL: Who was that? Was that Archer, or was that Bob?
BENJAMIN: Well, you should guess.
POUNDSTONE: No. That was unquestionably Archer. I heard it.
SAGAL: You think so?
POUNDSTONE: Yeah, I heard it.
BENJAMIN: That was. That was Archer.
SAGAL: Yeah.
POUNDSTONE: Yeah.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: OK, now do Bob. Now do Bob. Same thing.
BENJAMIN: OK.
SAGAL: I want a strawberry milkshake and an apple pie.
BENJAMIN: OK, right. Here's Bob. (As Bob Belcher) I would like a - oh, God.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: (Laughter) Oh, I don't know if I should. I - yeah, all right, I'll have a strawberry milkshake, I think. And a - you know what? - and an apple pie.
(LAUGHTER)
POUNDSTONE: Oh, yeah.
SAGAL: There you go.
POUNDSTONE: Yeah. That's Bob.
SAGAL: I see that.
POUNDSTONE: Yeah.
SAGAL: Do you get recognized in public? Many people, of course, don't know what you look like, I guess, but they absolutely know what you sound like. Does that ever happen...
BENJAMIN: Yes.
SAGAL: ...To you? You're ordering a pizza, and people go, wait a minute.
BENJAMIN: Sometimes that does happen - very infrequently. But I - at my local Starbucks, I don't know if everybody's familiar with "Archer," but there's a running gag where he calls out to one of his coworkers, whose name is Lana, who is his girlfriend. And my Starbucks barista was named Lana.
SAGAL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: So the running gag in "Archer" is I go - I am always calling out, Lana. (As Sterling Archer) Lana. Lana.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: And for years, I did that to my Starbucks barista.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: And was she amused?
BENJAMIN: She was just, like, totally flummoxed by why I was yelling.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: And then I - say, like, about a year and a half ago, I went in, and she was like, I watched your show.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: You've been doing that for two years.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So, Jon, you've written a book. It's called "Failure Is An Option," and...
BENJAMIN: Yes.
SAGAL: ...It is a memoir of all the times you have failed.
BENJAMIN: Yes.
SAGAL: There are a...
BENJAMIN: Well, I had to leave out a ton of stories.
POUNDSTONE: Yeah.
SAGAL: Yeah, I'm sure.
POUNDSTONE: I was going to say.
SAGAL: I don't remember if it actually tells the story about failing at it, but one of the things you're not any good at is music...
BENJAMIN: Yes.
SAGAL: ...Which did not prevent you from releasing a jazz album...
BENJAMIN: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Recently.
POUNDSTONE: Wow.
BENJAMIN: Yes.
SAGAL: Which is called - I think it's called "Well, I Should Have... Learned To Play The Piano." Is that what it's called?
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: That is exactly what it's called. Yeah.
SAGAL: Can you explain how this came to be or maybe why this came to be?
BENJAMIN: It was a sort of a - (laughter) it was just an idea I had - a concept I had. And I hired a bunch of professional jazz musicians who - and then met them at a recording studio, who then proceeded to find out that I can't play piano.
SAGAL: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So you just sat at the piano.
BENJAMIN: I sat at the piano, and I - when they kind of nodded over to me, I, like, just hit some keys a lot.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, I'm sure our audience is wondering what that must have sounded like. And we actually have a sample. So this is...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: This is H. Jon Benjamin's jazz record, "Well, I Should Have... Learned To Play The Piano." Here we go.
(SOUNDBITE OF JON BENJAMIN - JAZZ DAREDEVIL'S "I CAN'T PLAY PIANO, PT. 1")
SAGAL: As you were doing this with these professional jazz musicians, did their level of rage and indignation...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Increase during...
BENJAMIN: It was like a - I mean, it started that way, and then it was like a simmer. So...
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: They kind of got into it.
SAGAL: Really?
BENJAMIN: Like, we met in the middle at some point.
BABYLON: Did you do any scatting? That would be - that would be horrible.
BENJAMIN: (Laughter) I did, like, some yelling out like, come on, guys.
(LAUGHTER)
BABYLON: (Inaudible).
BENJAMIN: Yeah, here we go.
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: Yes.
BABYLON: Here we go.
BENJAMIN: Yeah, yeah.
POUNDSTONE: Oh, you know what would have been great? - is stay with me. Yeah, yeah. Come on, guys, stay with me.
SAGAL: Come on.
BABYLON: That's funny.
(LAUGHTER)
POUNDSTONE: All right. Follow me now. Follow me.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, Jon Benjamin, it is a delight to talk to you, but we have asked you here today to play a game that this time we're calling...
KURTIS: Thwack - Bull's-Eye.
SAGAL: So you play Archer, super spy, so we thought we'd ask you about archery, super sport.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Answer 2 of these 3 questions about archery - you'll win our prize for one of our listeners. Bill, who's Jon Benjamin playing for?
KURTIS: Rob Douglas (ph) of Ann Arbor, Mich.
SAGAL: All right. You ready for this, Jon?
BENJAMIN: I'm ready.
SAGAL: All right. First question. As it happens, archery is the national sport of the nation of Bhutan, but they do it under special Bhutan rules, which includes what little quirk? A, competitors are allowed to attempt to catch the opponent's arrow, in which case, they automatically win; B, you are allowed to trash talk your opponent while she tries to shoot; or C, in the case of a tie, the competitors shoot at each other as a tiebreaker?
BENJAMIN: I'm going to go with A.
SAGAL: You're going with A, that if you can reach out and snag the arrow out of the air, you automatically win.
BENJAMIN: Yeah.
SAGAL: No, it's actually B. You're allowed to trash talk your opponent.
BENJAMIN: Oh, Bhutan. Bhutan.
SAGAL: Bhutan. You're allowed to trash talk your opponent, and you can even stand near the target and wave around and try to distract them...
POUNDSTONE: Oh, wow.
SAGAL: ...Although that strikes me as dangerous.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right. Next question. Recently, a father in Vietnam used his bow and arrow to bring fame to his family. How? A, he won Mr. Vietnam by ballroom dancing with the bow as his partner during the talent competition...
POUNDSTONE: (Laughter).
SAGAL: ...B, he tied his son's loose tooth to an arrow and shot it into the air...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, his Halloween costume design went viral when he dressed his older daughter as a fully functional bow, and she could fling his younger daughter, who was dressed as an arrow?
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: (Laughter) Well, C is insane. B is radically dangerous, so I'll go with A.
SAGAL: You're going to go with A, that he won the Mr. Vietnam competition by ballroom dancing with a bow as his partner?
BENJAMIN: Oh, so you're definitely cluing me in that it's not A.
SAGAL: I am...
(LAUGHTER)
BENJAMIN: All right, I'll go with B then.
SAGAL: You're right. It was B.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: He tied...
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: ...His son's tooth to an arrow, shot the arrow in the air. So here's your last question, Jon. Sometimes, archery can be used for practical purposes, as in which of these incidents? A, retired Olympic archer Darrell Pace is hired by Macy's to help deflate parade balloons after the Thanksgiving Day parade by shooting them; B, a man in Washington State used a bow and arrow to shoot a bag of marijuana into a jail for some friends there...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, a woman in Montana was last seen shooting down a bag of chips from the top shelf at a grocery store?
BENJAMIN: I think I'll go with B.
SAGAL: You're right. It was B.
POUNDSTONE: There you go.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: The guy was caught after he shot the pot into the jail with an arrow. He said he was just trying to shoot a squirrel, about which the sheriff said he had no explanation as to why squirrel hunting requires attaching marijuana to an arrow.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Bill, how did Jon Benjamin do on our quiz?
KURTIS: Well, he ruined his record - that 2 out of 3 is a win.
SAGAL: Yes.
BENJAMIN: Oh, no.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Jon Benjamin, thank you so much for joining us.
BENJAMIN: Thank you, guys.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Thank you, Jon. Take care.
POUNDSTONE: Bye, Jon.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
SAGAL: Now, a few weeks ago, we went to Seattle, where just before we were scheduled to do our show, I came down with COVID.
KURTIS: The emergency guest host, Tom Papa, flew in to man the ship. And here's a question that didn't make the final broadcast.
TOM PAPA: Shantira, researchers in Australia have found an ant colony that responds to danger by having the entire colony do what?
SHANTIRA JACKSON: Go to the queen and say, help us.
PAPA: (Laughter) Would you like a hint?
JACKSON: I would love more than one.
PAPA: I'd love to give you one. They all draw little Xs over their eyes. They don't move. And they hang their tongues out.
JACKSON: Oh, they pretend to be dead?
PAPA: Yes.
KURTIS: Yes.
JACKSON: Oh.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
PAPA: They play dead. Researchers discovered the ant colony in Australia on Kangaroo Island.
LUKE BURBANK: Checks out.
JACKSON: Yeah.
PAPA: The researchers stumbled on what appeared to be a whole colony of dead ants, but then one of them moved.
BURBANK: Terry.
(LAUGHTER)
PAPA: Stupid Terry.
JACKSON: Australia's animals are different. Are they the size of bees? How did they know?
PAPA: Well, it is Kangaroo Island, though. I'm going to just guess they're the size of kangaroos.
JACKSON: Yeah, that sounds right.
(LAUGHTER)
BURBANK: I chased a kangaroo once over a hill in Australia. I went on a little jog one morning, and there was a mama kangaroo and her...
JACKSON: Joey.
BURBANK: ...Joey. And I saw them, and they kind of looked at me. And they hopped over this hill. And I went jogging after them over this beautiful hill, and then I got to the other side, and there was about 400 kangaroos.
PAPA: Whoa.
BURBANK: And I sprinted in the opposite direction 'cause it was...
JESSI KLEIN: Yeah.
BURBANK: ...Terrifying. One was, like, sharpening a knife on its hand.
(LAUGHTER)
KLEIN: (Imitating Crocodile Dundee) Luke, that's not a knife.
BURBANK: Right?
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "PRETEND WE'RE DEAD")
L7: (Singing) When we pretend that we're dead (pretend that we're dead). When we pretend that we're dead (pretend that we're dead). They can't hear a word we've said.
SAGAL: When we come back, the "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," who survived 10 years in a bunker, and director Rian Johnson, who survived dealing with "Star Wars" fans. That's when we come back with more on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME from NPR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I'm Bill Kurtis, and here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Ill., Peter Sagal.
SAGAL: Thank you, Bill.
(CHEERING)
SAGAL: So - thank you, everybody.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: We are, in fact, taking the week off to celebrate the greatest movie ever made, "Independence Day," which reveals that even though the aliens may have super weapons and giant spaceships, they will still use Apple laptops.
(LAUGHTER)
KURTIS: But even they refuse to subscribe to Apple Music.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So while we dress as our favorite characters for the screening we're going to have, we're bringing back some great segments from past shows. Ellie Kemper was the star of the "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," which was one of the best sitcoms of the last decade.
KURTIS: When she joined us in 2018, Peter asked her about an earlier experience auditioning for "Saturday Night Live."
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
ELLIE KEMPER: Listen. Out of the gate here, I reveal that my heart is pounding. I'm an anxious, nervous person, and I'm going to 30 Rockefeller Center to meet Lorne Michaels. Of course, I call him Michael Lornes. I mean, his last name sounds like a first name - not my fault.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So you have this new book. It's called "Squirrel Days." And the first thing you say in the book is that you say you have to write a book 'cause you're starring in a TV show...
KEMPER: Yes.
SAGAL: ...And that's what TV stars do.
KEMPER: Yes. It's just a matter of course. Yes.
SAGAL: It's a matter of course.
KEMPER: I wanted to make it clear that I was trying to write a very good book (laughter). I hope it's - I hope you like it.
SAGAL: It is true. It is. And all the great books - like, "Moby Dick" begins...
KEMPER: Oh, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Call me Ishmael. I'm sorry, but I was contracted to do this.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: Exactly.
SAGAL: Yeah.
KEMPER: He was great on "Bosom Buddies." I thought he was so funny.
SAGAL: He was terrific. He was great. Ishmael was the best.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Tell us why you decided to call your memoir "Squirrel Days."
KEMPER: One of the central essays of the book is about my ultimately unsuccessful attempt to befriend a squirrel in my backyard, which - we all have been there. I mean, I definitely have...
SAGAL: No. I'm just going to stop and say - I want you to finish the story - we have not all been there.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: OK. OK.
POUNDSTONE: No...
SAGAL: Let's find out. So what happened with you? So you're a young girl. You're in St. Louis, right?
KEMPER: I'm in St. Louis, or I was in St. Louis. I had just seen "Dances With Wolves." I was a huge fan of "The Secret Garden." And I thought, that's who I want to be. So I went out, and I tried to become one with nature, sort of - like, really get close to this plump squirrel, who I nicknamed Natalie (ph). And I realized that...
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: ...Squirrels don't care. She had no interest in becoming my friend. And I did realize that nature is, you know, ultimately indifferent to us. And I was a - it was a hard lesson to learn early on. But...
ROXANNE ROBERTS: Ellie, maybe the squirrel was just indifferent to you.
(LAUGHTER)
POUNDSTONE: No, you know what...
KEMPER: Do you think it was me?
POUNDSTONE: No...
(LAUGHTER)
ROBERTS: It could be. It could be.
POUNDSTONE: You know what I think? I think Natalie was its last name.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: That's where I went wrong.
POUNDSTONE: Yep.
PETER GROSZ: Natalie Lornes (ph).
SAGAL: Do you think that now that you're famous, the squirrel's like, yeah, we were friends?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: What's interesting about - is this true? We were trying to piece this together. Were you, in fact, a debutante back in St. Louis?
KEMPER: I am mortified that you were trying to piece anything together. This is - I'm living in nightmare right now. Yes, I was a debutante.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You should know that if you don't want people to ask you embarrassing questions about your past, you should probably not write a memoir.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: You're not joking.
SAGAL: Yeah.
KEMPER: So I was a squirrel-loving debutante, and that's the truth.
(LAUGHTER)
POUNDSTONE: What is a debutante?
SAGAL: Yeah. Explain, please, exactly for those who don't know.
KEMPER: I don't...
GROSZ: They're people who talk to squirrels in their yards and stuff.
KEMPER: I think - exactly.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: I don't know if debutante society is bigger in the - I'm - as I said, I'm from St. Louis, so it's the Midwest. But I feel like it's bigger in the South. And it's essentially a - oh, gosh, how is there a way to make this sound palatable? It's where young women are introduced to society. Oh, it's horrible.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: And aren't there special balls at which this is done?
ROBERTS: And you wear white dresses.
SAGAL: Yeah.
KEMPER: And wear white dresses and white gloves. Yeah. Yeah, I was only 18 when it happened, or 19. So yeah. No, the whole thing is - it's a spectacle. Maybe some people in the audience were debutantes and know all about it.
POUNDSTONE: No, I don't think so.
SAGAL: No.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So you play Kimmy on "Kimmy Schmidt" - the "Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt," a show created by Tina Fey on Netflix. And it seems as if that role was written for you. Is that correct?
KEMPER: I think that it was, or I know that it was, which is a huge compliment. I mean, because - yeah, I think it was, like - I'm sure there were many people that they were, you know, considering writing a show for. And then I think this idea was their favorite idea, so...
SAGAL: Well...
KEMPER: ...That's the one that went forward.
SAGAL: If people don't know it, Kimmy Schmidt is a character who had a terrible upbringing. She was held in a bunker for many, many years. And then the show is all about how she deals with real life as she emerges into it as an adult. And she is absolutely, I guess, unbreakable. She never gets upset. She never gets frustrated. She's always incredibly cheerful no matter what happens to her. And that...
KEMPER: You know...
SAGAL: Is that you? Is that the kind of person you are?
KEMPER: Well, some say that the debutante ball was my bunker. No, I...
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: I think that there's, like, the - there's a little bit of me in that character. But I - this will sound so corny, but I have drawn such strength from Kimmy. She is fierce. She refuses to let outside circumstances dictate her own actions. And I really think - I have, like, a fraction of that, maybe, on a good day. So I really do think she's - she's been through this unimaginable ordeal, and she still chooses to think the best in people, which I think is remarkable.
SAGAL: I do want to reference, because we had him on the show last week, that the big reveal - spoiler - at the end of the first season that the evil man who kept you in prison was - is played by Jon Hamm...
KEMPER: Yes.
SAGAL: ...Which is hilarious. And we found out he was actually your high school drama teacher.
KEMPER: I know. Is that crazy? He - isn't that crazy?
SAGAL: Oh, yeah. He's from St. Louis.
KEMPER: He was. He's 10 years older than I am, and he - I'm younger, no big deal. And he...
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: ...Graduated college, and he came back to our high school, John Burroughs School, to teach for a year. And he taught me the improv section of my theater class, which is - it's nuts.
SAGAL: Did you call him Mr. Hamm on set?
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: No (laughter).
POUNDSTONE: No, she called him Hamm Mr.
(LAUGHTER)
POUNDSTONE: She would just get so nervous.
SAGAL: Yeah, I know.
KEMPER: Every time I'm flustered, it's just - the names flip.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, Ellie Kemper, we are delighted to talk to you. We've invited you here to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt, meet the unbreakable Jimmy Smits.
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: No.
SAGAL: Answer two questions about the distinguished actor Jimmy Smits...
KEMPER: OK.
SAGAL: ...And you'll win a prize from one of our listeners - the voice of their choice from anyone on the show. Bill, who is Ellie Kemper playing for?
KURTIS: Patrick Hoskin (ph) of Los Angeles, Calif.
SAGAL: All right, Ellie. Here's your first question. Jimmy Smits was in Steve Bochco's infamous failed musical cop show "Cop Rock." But that's not his only musical role. He also appeared in what? A, "If You Could Read His Mind," the Gordon Lightfoot musical...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, "Exorcist: The Musical..."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, "Mother Goose: A Rappin' & Rhymin' Special"?
KEMPER: C?
SAGAL: Yes.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
KEMPER: Wait, was I right?
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: You were.
KEMPER: Oh, my God.
SAGAL: Next question about the unbreakable Jimmy Smits. For a lot of young people, Jimmy Smits is most well known for playing Senator Bail Organa in the recent spate of "Star Wars" movies. How did he get the part? A, George Lucas' original choice showed up for the interview hung over; B, Smits just showed up on the set in costume and talked his way on; or C, the casting director owed him some money?
KEMPER: I'm very good at this game. I think I've demonstrated that. So I'm going to go with my gut and say A.
SAGAL: You're right again.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: That's what happened.
KEMPER: What is this?
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: George Lucas wanted a British actor to play the role. He showed up. The guy came down all hung over. George Lucas didn't like it. Jimmy Smits got the part.
KEMPER: I love that story. OK.
SAGAL: All right. Your last bit of trivia about the unbreakable Jimmy Smits.
KEMPER: (Laughter).
SAGAL: How tall is Jimmy Smits?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Is he, A, 5'8"; B, 6'3"; or C, 12 feet tall?
(LAUGHTER)
KEMPER: I think he's - I mean, he's 6-foot-3.
SAGAL: Yes, he is.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: He's 6-foot-3. Congratulations.
KEMPER: Yes. Thank you.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Bill, how did Ellie Kemper do on our show?
KURTIS: Excellent. Ellie got them all right.
SAGAL: Congratulations.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Ellie Kemper, in addition to being a delightful person, has written a genuinely delightful book called "My Squirrel Days." Ellie Kemper, thank you so much for joining us on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME.
KEMPER: Thank you so much for having me.
(APPLAUSE)
KEMPER: I had a lovely time.
SAGAL: Thank you, Ellie.
POUNDSTONE: Nice to meet you, Ellie.
GROSZ: Bye, Ellie.
KEMPER: Bye, Peter.
SAGAL: Bye-bye.
KEMPER: Bye, guys. Thank you.
(SOUNDBITE OF SONG, "UNBREAKABLE")
THE GREGORY BROTHERS AND MIKE BRITT: (Singing) Unbreakable. They alive, damn it. It's a miracle. Unbreakable. They alive, damn it.
SAGAL: Like me, Rian Johnson grew up in the '70s as a huge "Star Wars" fan. But unlike me, he then got to direct a "Star Wars" movie, "The Last Jedi." And we talked to him back in 2013 (ph) when that movie came out.
KURTIS: He started preparing early, making movies with his friends in high school.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
RIAN JOHNSON: Well, they're mostly just - you know, your friends get together on a weekend. And you're bored. And you've got a camera and you say, why don't we try making a James Bond movie? Why don't we try making - they're mostly just doing, like, weird little takes on different genres. And they also usually, ironically, involved blowing up old action figures.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Yeah, really?
JOHNSON: Yeah. You know, 'cause you're like, what would this look like if we tied a firecracker to this Jawa?
(LAUGHTER)
HELEN HONG: So you were blowing up "Star Wars" action figures?
SAGAL: Yeah, it's - it would be amazing if you're, like, you're sitting there, blowing up a Jawa - little Jawa, you know, the creature from the first "Star Wars" movie, and like...
ADAM FELBER: OTD.
SAGAL: ...And a time traveler shows up and says, Rian, you are not going to believe this.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So fast-forward - you make a number of movies. Your first movie, "Brick," was hugely acclaimed, and you made some more films that were just tremendously admired. Tell me about how you got this job. What is it like to be hired to direct the next "Star Wars" movie?
JOHNSON: This came entirely out of the blue. It was for something that was an incredibly surprising thing. It was presented to me in the most surprising way possible, which is Kathleen Kennedy, who runs Lucasfilm - she called me into her office for what I thought was just a general meeting. I had no idea what I was stepping into. And she basically shut the door behind me and asked me - just dropped this bomb, asked me if I'd be interested in doing this. And I had literally no clue that I was in the running, would ever be in the running for something like this. So it was - I don't remember much about that meeting.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Did they explain what it was about you that they said, yes, you're the guy we've picked?
JOHNSON: I had no idea. And to be quite honest, I didn't push them on it.
(LAUGHTER)
FELBER: Rian, Adam Felber here. I've got to ask one question. I loved your movie. One thing I really loved about the script is, twice in the movie, one of the good guys and the bad guys - Luke Skywalker and Kylo Ren - float the idea that maybe this whole Jedi thing is a terrible idea that leads to a lot of death.
JOHNSON: (Laughter).
FELBER: Aren't they right?
(LAUGHTER)
HONG: Hey.
JOHNSON: They're not entirely wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: I've got one. If we're going to do nerd questions, I...
(LAUGHTER)
HONG: You guys broke the seal, and now...
SAGAL: All right.
HONG: ...We're going to be here all night.
FELBER: I couldn't not...
SAGAL: All right. But there's this rather infamous scene in "The Last Jedi" in which Luke, as he goes about his day on his remote island, milks this creature.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: And I just want to ask you, was that the answer to the 40-year-old question, where the heck does Aunt Beru's blue milk come from?
JOHNSON: (Laughter) Well, if you want to get technical, no, 'cause it's - it would be a different creature 'cause that's an aquatic creature, and there's not much water on Tatooine.
HONG: Ooh.
JOHNSON: Also, our...
HONG: Nice.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: ...Our milk is slightly green.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Oh.
HONG: Wow.
SAGAL: I see.
JOHNSON: Kaboom.
SAGAL: Yeah, damn it. I thought - I was entertaining the hell out of my friends on Facebook with that theory.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: OK. Rian, before we go into the game, I have to ask you about Kylo Ren's pants in the movie. Are you familiar with the Kylo Ren challenge?
JOHNSON: Oh, I am indeed.
SAGAL: Yes.
JOHNSON: So there's a scene where the incredibly toned and buff and beautiful Adam Driver is shirtless.
(LAUGHTER)
HONG: Yes.
JOHNSON: He had been training at this point for - doing intense fighting training for, like, six months. And so he just looked incredible. And he's wearing these slightly high-waisted pants. It's a very distinct look. He looks rad. And who was it who started it online? Somebody famous started a meme where they basically went shirtless with kind of high-waisted, black pants and took a selfie. And they call it the Kylo Ren challenge.
SAGAL: Yes. Are you buff enough to wear these pants? I have to ask you a question - were you not allowed to show Adam Driver's navel to the movie...
JOHNSON: (Laughter).
SAGAL: ...Viewers of America? 'Cause those are some pretty funny-looking pants.
JOHNSON: Yeah, the naval rider? No.
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: I think - those are just the pants in the costume, I think.
SAGAL: Just - all right. Take off the shirt. That's what you got. Rian...
FELBER: What - do you expect a galaxy far away to have low-riders here?
SAGAL: I don't know.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: But I was like - I mean, Kylo Ren is, like, a terrifying villain. He kills people.
HONG: It doesn't mean he can't have a shy navel.
SAGAL: No. And it turns out he wears his pants like my grandfather. They're pulled up...
(LAUGHTER)
FELBER: It was a long time ago.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: It was. It's like - it's just - you know, it's like, and there's Kylo Ren with his pants pulled up past his pupik. It's like...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, Rian Johnson, it is a joy to talk to you. And as you could tell, some of us could do it all day.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: But we have business to do. We have asked you to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: "Storage Wars."
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: You are now a "Star Wars" director, so we thought we'd ask you about "Storage Wars." That's the reality show where people guess what's in storage lockers. Now, we have made our own version of that game for you here. So we're going to ask you three questions about storage units, and you will win our prize for one of our listeners if you get two of them right. So, Bill, who is Rian Johnson playing for?
KURTIS: Sarah Anderson (ph) of Salt Lake City, Utah.
SAGAL: All right. Here we go. You ready to play, Rian?
JOHNSON: Let's do it.
SAGAL: All right. First "Storage Wars" challenge. If you were like one woman in Alabama a few years ago, you could make a cool $100,000 from a storage locker if you just do what? A, rent it out as a waterfront condominium to blind people...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, get locked in it for 63 days and win a lawsuit; or C, discover it was sitting on a huge deposit of coal?
JOHNSON: Oh, boy. I would guess C.
SAGAL: You're going to go with C. No, it was actually B, get locked in a...
JOHNSON: Oh.
SAGAL: No, this woman - she says that she was locked in there for 63 days, and no one let her out. So she won a settlement from the storage locker owner.
HONG: What did she eat or drink?
ROY BLOUNT JR: Yeah.
SAGAL: She - happily for her, she was locked in there with lots of canned goods and juice.
HONG: Wow.
SAGAL: The storage locker owner thinks this whole thing was a scam but still had to pay up $100,000. All right. Next question. If you get the next two, you still win. A storage locker in Michigan was opened in 2009. Now, if you had bid on that storage locker and won it, would you have found A, the world's largest hairball coughed up by a Detroit cat in 1933...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, four years of mail a particular mailman did not feel like delivering...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, President Barack Obama's missing college transcripts?
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNSON: Well, B made me laugh, so I'm going to go with B.
SAGAL: You're figuring this out. That's the right one. Yes.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
HONG: Wow.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: It turns out that this letter carrier in the Detroit area just, like, couldn't handle all the letters that he was supposed to deliver every day. So he would just stuff them into this storage locker he rented, and he did that for four years.
HONG: For four years?
SAGAL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Last storage challenge. In 2015, you could've bought a particular storage locker in California for $80 - just $80 - and it ended up containing which of these? A, a fully functioning meth lab; B, $79 in pennies...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or C, a woman who had been trapped in there for 63 days, eating nothing...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...But juice and canned food?
JOHNSON: Oh, God. I'm tempted (laughter) by the irony of B, but I'm going to go with A.
SAGAL: You're right. It was, in fact...
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
SAGAL: ...A fully functioning meth lab.
HONG: Wow.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Top tip - if you're going to run a meth lab in a rented storage locker, pay your rent.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Bill, how did Rian Johnson do on our quiz?
KURTIS: Well, part of the force was with him. You got 2 out of 3, and that means you're a winner, Rian.
SAGAL: Again. Again, he's a winner.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Rian Johnson is, of course, the writer-director of "The Last Jedi." Rian, thank you so much for the movie, and thank you for being with us on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME.
JOHNSON: Thank you so much, guys.
SAGAL: Bye-bye.
(SOUNDBITE OF JOHN WILLIAMS' "STAR WARS (MAIN TITLE)")
SAGAL: When we come back, two people who couldn't have less in common, except their middle initial. It's Oscar winner Ruth E. Carter and Oscar nominee Richard E. Grant on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME from NPR.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
KURTIS: From NPR and WBEZ Chicago, this is WAIT WAIT...DON'T TELL ME, the NPR news quiz. I'm Bill Kurtis. And here is your host at the Studebaker Theater in the Fine Arts Building in downtown Chicago, Ill. - Peter Sagal.
SAGAL: Thank you, Bill. Thank you, everybody.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: We're here getting ready for our annual showing of "Independence Day," the movie, which frankly has a much better plot than the story behind the holiday.
KURTIS: Did Benjamin Franklin ever punch an alien in the face? I think not.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So while we prepare for the big climactic battle reenactment, we are going to bring you some gems from our archive. In 2019, costume designer Ruth E. Carter made Oscar history as the first Black woman to win an Oscar for costume design. And then she did it again in 2023.
KURTIS: Before we asked her about her Oscar for "Black Panther," we had to ask her about her job.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
SAGAL: Now, you're the first costume designer we've ever talked to. So I just wanted to go over some basic stuff. So you're the costume designer for a film. Do you ever have to deal with, like, actor egos? Like, you pick out the perfect costume for a particular character - and like, I'm not going to wear that.
RUTH E CARTER: You know, I guess you deal with actors' egos on a different level. You know, sometimes they say, you know, I can't wear that color, you know, or - but because we're discovering a character, we are both kind of contributing to the conversation.
FELBER: Right. So you have to occasionally just say, yes, so maybe your character has a bigger butt.
CARTER: Exactly.
SAGAL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So let's get to the fun stuff, which is a movie like "Black Panther." - comic book movie, fictional, fantastical science fiction country. You are, like, the most qualified person to ask about something that I've always thought, which is that a great problem for making comic book movies is that, unlike in comic books, people wearing superhero suits in real life essentially look dumb.
CARTER: Yeah. Because they don't realize there's a whole process to making that thing. You just don't go to the store and get some spandex and sew it up.
SAGAL: No.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So how do you make it so, like, the Black Panther, when he's in his superhero suit running around, doesn't look dumb?
CARTER: Yeah, well, we do a muscle sculpt. That helps.
SAGAL: What do you mean?
CARTER: And - well, we take a Vac-u-form form kind of mannequin version of Chadwick Boseman's real body form. And we add the clay to his muscles, and we form a superhero kind of physique.
SAGAL: Are you telling me that that's...
CARTER: I'm telling you the secret. Yes.
SAGAL: That's not all Chadwick Boseman under there?
CARTER: No. So it doesn't matter how much muscle milk you drink. You're never going to be a superhero. You've got to have some clay muscles...
SAGAL: So you're telling me that that, like...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Amazing superhero suit...
CARTER: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...Is just like those padded things that the kids have on Halloween?
CARTER: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...Like the muscles...
(LAUGHTER)
CARTER: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SAGAL: Are, like, built...
CARTER: Yeah.
SAGAL: ...In.
CARTER: Yeah, listen. Don't do this at home, kids. It's not exaggerated as you might think. It's just more shoulders, you know?
GROSZ: Yeah.
CARTER: It's not much.
GROSZ: Yeah.
FELBER: When you make my suit, I want more than a little help.
CARTER: OK.
SAGAL: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So you are now an Oscar-winning costume designer.
CARTER: Yeah.
SAGAL: You've been a leading costume designer in many, many films for many, many, years. Does that put some pressure on you to dress when you go out in public?
CARTER: Oh, no. I've always been anti-fashion. I think that's what makes me kind of unique, that I'm not trying to please or prove myself to anyone. It's not in how I look. It's how I dress other people. Come on.
SAGAL: Really?
GROSZ: Yeah.
CARTER: Yeah.
SAGAL: All right. Well, how about Halloween? I would expect if I - if you came to my Halloween party, which I hope you do someday, I would expect that you would walk in with, like, the costume. Is this...
CARTER: Yeah, that's why I don't go to Halloween parties.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Well, Ruth Carter, what a pleasure to talk to you. We've invited you here to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: I Hate Mondays.
SAGAL: You designed "Black Panther," so we decided to ask you about the orange panther - that is Garfield...
(LAUGHTER)
CARTER: Oh.
SAGAL: ...The inexplicably beloved comic strip character.
ROBERTS: (Laughter).
SAGAL: Answer two out of three questions correctly, you'll win our prize for one of our listeners - the voice of anyone they might choose in their voicemail.
SAGAL: Bill, who is Ruth Carter playing for?
KURTIS: Brent and Angie in Indianapolis.
CARTER: Oh.
SAGAL: Now, you ready to play, Ruth?
CARTER: I'm ready.
SAGAL: Here's your first question. Garfield was invented by his creator, Jim Davis, back in 1978. What inspired Mr. Davis to create the beloved character? A, his own cat, a beloved tubby tabby named Taft; B, his brother, who was fat, lazy, loved lasagna and occasionally cleaned himself by licking his hands...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...Or, C, a desire to create, quote, "a good, marketable character," unquote, that would make him a lot of money?
CARTER: Aww. His tubby tabby.
SAGAL: No.
CARTER: Oh.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: It was C. He wanted to make a lot of money.
CARTER: Really?
(LAUGHTER)
CARTER: Oh, that's disappointing.
SAGAL: He did some research, and at the time, there were all these dogs in the comics but no cats. And he figured there were, like, 15 million cat owners who might enjoy a cat comic. So he created it to be popular, and it worked.
CARTER: Got it.
SAGAL: You've two more chances here. In 2004, "Garfield: The Movie" came out. It was panned by critics, of course. But Garfield was voiced by legendary actor Bill Murray. Why did Bill Murray agree to play Garfield? Was it A, the producers agreed to pay him with a lifetime supply of Italian beef sandwiches from his favorite Chicago restaurant...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, he mistakenly thought that the movie's screenwriter, Joel Cohen, with an H, was Joel Coen of the Coen Brothers; or, C, he was still angry that he wasn't allowed to provide a voice for the gopher in "Caddyshack"?
(LAUGHTER)
CARTER: Oh, I'm going to try B.
SAGAL: You're right.
(APPLAUSE)
CARTER: Yeah, that makes sense.
SAGAL: As unlikely as it sounds...
GROSZ: Oh, my God.
SAGAL: ...He thought that he was doing a movie that was written by one of the Coen Brothers, and he says he didn't realize his mistake until he was in the studio recording his lines, and all of them were terrible.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: All right, last question. If you get this right, you win. Here we go.
CARTER: OK.
SAGAL: Not every Garfield strip has been embraced by his fans, such as which of these examples: A, a 2007 strip in which Odie burns an American flag while screaming, death to America...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: ...B, a 1997 strip in which Jon's girlfriend Liz catches him wearing her underwear...
GROSZ: (Laughter).
SAGAL: ...Or C, a series of strips the week of Halloween 1989 written as a horror comic in which Garfield faces his greatest fear - existential loneliness.
CARTER: Oh, brother. Let's see. I'm going to try B.
SAGAL: You're going to try B, in which Jon's girlfriend Liz catches him wearing her underwear?
CARTER: No, wait. No, don't do that one. Let's say C.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So you're going to go for C, the existential heart?
CARTER: Yes.
SAGAL: That's what it was.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
GROSZ: Yeah.
CARTER: Yeah. Oh, that was a hard one.
SAGAL: If you...
CARTER: Why do I get the hard quiz?
SAGAL: It was hard, but if you've never seen these very real comics from 1989, I highly recommend you look it up 'cause Garfield, as opposed to being funny and chubby and angry - he wakes up in an empty house where no one is left, and he spends all week panicking because he's facing his greatest fear...
CARTER: Oh (laughter).
SAGAL: ...Loneliness.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Bill, how did Ruth Carter do in our quiz?
KURTIS: Ruth got two out of three, which is a win for us.
CARTER: Yay, I won.
SAGAL: Yay.
(CHEERING AND APPLAUSE)
CARTER: I finally - oh, I won a second prize. Yay.
KURTIS: Congratulations.
SAGAL: And it's got to be better, right, just all uphill.
CARTER: (Laughter).
SAGAL: It's like Oscar, WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME, Nobel.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Ruth E. Carter won the Oscar for costume design for "Black Panther" just this year. A Museum exhibit featuring her designs is now traveling the world. Ruth E. Carter, thank you so much for joining us on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME.
(APPLAUSE)
CARTER: Yay. Thank you.
SAGAL: Congratulations on the movie and the Oscar, and we'll look forward to what's next. Take care.
(SOUNDBITE OF MUSIC)
SAGAL: The same year that Ruth E. Carter won her first Oscar, Richard E. Grant was nominated for his first Academy Award, after more than three decades as an actor. We talked to him before the ceremony.
(SOUNDBITE OF ARCHIVED NPR BROADCAST)
FELBER: Everybody say, hi, Richard.
UNIDENTIFIED CROWD: Hi, Richard.
SAGAL: There you go.
RICHARD E GRANT: Hi, y'all.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Oh, you've learned American. Very good.
GRANT: I have.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: So as I was saying, I usually ask actors what role they're most recognized for. Usually, I can guess. In your case, I can't. So is there a role - is it "Withnail & I," that great cult movie you did a long time ago? Is it some more recent stuff?
GRANT: It falls into two distinct categories. It's either people old enough to have seen "Withnail & I," you know, this cult movie from 1987, or it's that other great masterpiece, "Spice World," the movie.
SAGAL: There you are.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Do you know, like, what, like, a quintessential Richard E. Grant part is? Like, somebody says, this is the perfect part for Richard E. Grant because it's a...
GRANT: Because the person is usually on the edge of a nervous breakdown or manic.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Yeah, I would say that your characters all seem either happily or unhappily on the edge.
GRANT: Unhinged.
SAGAL: Yes, that's the word I was looking for. We also read that you enjoy smelling things, that you're very...
GRANT: I do. I make perfume.
SAGAL: You do, yes. How do you go about making perfume? And if you're an actor, is this something you've studied?
GRANT: Well, in 1969, when I was 12 years old, the first American that I ever met - called Betsy Clapp, with a double P - I fell madly in love with her. She was fast-talking, gum-chewing. She taught me how to French kiss. I don't know whether you know what that means. It's use of the tongue.
SAGAL: Oh, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: That has recently arrived here on these shores, sir.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANT: Ah, good. And I tried to make perfume for her out of gardenia and rose petals boiled up in sugar water - just turned into stink bombs - and then finally, 40 years later, I professionally made it as an adult, so it's lime, marijuana and mandarin and signature notes of the original scent.
SAGAL: Wait a minute. You just said marijuana?
GRANT: Yeah.
SAGAL: So - and is this - does this perfume have a name? Is it, like, you know, Passion by Richard E. Grant? What's it called?
GRANT: No. No, you fool. It's called Jack.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: It's called Jack.
GRANT: It's called Jack. It's unisex, and it comes in a Union Jack bag inside a box, and you can buy it online here and in stores in New York and in LA.
SAGAL: Wow.
GRANT: Yep, that's right.
SAGAL: And it's very useful - if, like, somebody catches you, and you've been smoking weed all day, you can say, oh, no, you're catching a whiff of my lovely perfume from Richard E. Grant called Jack.
GRANT: Exactly.
SAGAL: That's a great sales gimmick.
TOM BODETT: Yeah.
GRANT: Listen, you've given me the best sales pitch here that I could have dreamt of.
SAGAL: I - everything I can do. We read that you're so interested in scent - obviously, you are - that you, like, smell everything you encounter. Like...
GRANT: Yeah. I don't understand why everybody doesn't.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Who is your best-smelling costar?
GRANT: Ah. Well, I don't want to offend anybody because everybody has their own distinct ones. But there are some that I never want to smell again, and I'm not going tell you who they are.
SAGAL: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: I do want to ask you about your new film, which is, again, amazing - "Can You Ever Forgive Me?" You play a real person, who really lived and did some unpleasant things. He was, among other things, a bit of a liar and a cheat and a criminal.
GRANT: Yeah.
SAGAL: And did that appeal to you when you got the part, or were you like, OK, that's going to be a challenge?
GRANT: It did appeal to me because you understand, through telling the story, how he falls into this life of crime with Lee Israel, who's so brilliantly played by Melissa McCarthy. And I think that, you know, once you understand why people do what they do, then compassion can flood in, so you understand people, and you can feel sympathy for them.
SAGAL: Right. The relationship between your two characters are extraordinarily central to the movie, and I always wonder if actors do this. Did you, like, spend time with Melissa McCarthy improvising, pretending to be the people so you could get to know each other, or it was just, go on the set, and you were friends or whatever you were then?
GRANT: I met her on Friday in January a year ago in Manhattan for two hours, and we had lunch, and then we started shooting on Monday. And I knew within about four nanoseconds of meeting her that we would probably be friends for life because it felt like lightning in a bottle, so it was just luck as much as anything.
SAGAL: And I imagine she smelled wonderful.
GRANT: She did, and she's having my triplets in August.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Oh, that's great. How wonderful for both of you. One last question before we get to the game. Let's assume that you win, but even if you don't, getting an Oscar nomination or hopefully an Oscar gives you more options in terms of what you want to do next. So you've been doing all kinds of different roles and all kinds of different projects. Is there a dream thing? If somebody says, Richard E. Grant, Oscar winner, what would you like to do next? And you would say?
GRANT: I want to host your show.
SAGAL: Damn it.
(LAUGHTER)
FELBER: Bye, Peter.
(APPLAUSE)
SAGAL: Well, Richard E. Grant, it is a delight to talk to you, as I think I've shown, but we have invited you here to play a game we're calling...
KURTIS: Richard E. Grant, meet Ulysses S. Grant.
GRANT: OK.
SAGAL: You may or may not know, we here in the U.S. once had a president named Ulysses S. Grant. He'll probably be the star of a hip-hop musical any day now. We're going to ask you three questions about our President Grant. Answer two correctly, you'll win a prize for one of our listeners - the voice of their choice on their voicemail.
GRANT: OK.
SAGAL: Bill, who is Richard Grant playing for?
KURTIS: Chris Billig (ph) of Austin, Texas.
SAGAL: All right. Here we go. Grant's original name at birth was Hiram Ulysses Grant, but he eventually dropped the Hiram. Why? A, he disliked being made fun of for his initials, H-U-G. B, he found out Hiram was the name of his father's favorite mule. Or C, Hiram Grant owed a lot of money to the local saloon, but nobody had ever heard of Ulysses Grant.
GRANT: C.
SAGAL: No, it was A. He didn't like being called Hug. Apparently, elementary school in the early 19th century was just as vicious as it is today.
GRANT: OK.
SAGAL: Next question - one of Ulysses S. Grant's lesser-known claims to fame as a U.S. president is that he had what? A, he had the first known pet fish in the White House, named U-fishies (ph) S. Grant. B, according to a historian of hairstyles, Grant had the hairiest cabinet in presidential history.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANT: I've never heard it described like that.
SAGAL: Well, I'm afraid that, like, hairy cabinet is a euphemism where you come from. It's not.
GRANT: Yeah.
SAGAL: Or C, he wrote the song "Hail To The Chief," which he originally titled, "Hail To The Me."
GRANT: I think it has to be the hairy cabinet, no matter what...
SAGAL: Of course, you're right. Yes.
(SOUNDBITE OF BELL)
GRANT: Thank you.
SAGAL: According to the book "One Thousand Mustaches," every man in Grant's cabinet had either a beard, mustache or exceptional earhair. All right, last question - as we all know, Ulysses S. Grant first rode to fame and national stature as a general in the Civil War. But that fate for him was somewhat surprising. Why? Was it A - he was so afraid of blood, He reportedly couldn't even look at a rare stake without freaking out. B, his high school voted him least likely to lead the Union Army to victory.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Or C, he had a terrible allergy to hardtack.
GRANT: To what?
SAGAL: Hardtack, which was the kind of biscuit...
FELBER: That one might keep in a hairy cabinet.
SAGAL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
GRANT: I think it has to be No. 2.
SAGAL: You think it's number...
GRANT: B.
SAGAL: Wait a minute. You think it was his high school?
GRANT: Yeah.
SAGAL: In, like, 1834, whenever it was that he graduated, voted him likely to lead the Union Army?
GRANT: Yes. Definitely.
SAGAL: You really...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: If you want to go with that, I will respect that 'cause I am a fan. So you just make up your mind.
GRANT: OK, I'm going with that.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: And as so many of your characters are, you're gloriously mistaken.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: The answer was, of course, A, he was so afraid of blood, apparently, that he couldn't even deal with a raw steak. It does make you wonder how - I guess that's why he wanted to win so bad, so it would be over. Bill, how did Richard Grant doing our quiz?
KURTIS: You know, we're going to give it to him because he's starring with one of our hometown stars, Melissa McCarthy, from Chicago. So, congratulations. You are a winner, Richard.
GRANT: Thank you. But have I won like Donald Trump won?
SAGAL: No, no...
(LAUGHTER)
SAGAL: Yeah, you won like Donald Trump, and in the analogy, Bill is Putin.
GRANT: OK.
SAGAL: It goes as well for you come Oscar Knight. Richard E. Grant has been nominated so justly for an Oscar for his performance in "Can You Ever Forgive Me?" Richard E. Grant, thank you so much for joining us on WAIT WAIT... DON'T TELL ME. What a pleasure. Thank you.
FELBER: Thank you, Richard.
SAGAL: Good luck. Bye bye.
GRANT: A pleasure. Bye bye.
SAGAL: That's it for our celebrating the best movie with the title "Independence Day" edition.
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