***The PC Games Discussion Thread***

[WoodenSaucer]

Yeah, Probably! It may be good bye to DD, Starfield, & Skyrim.

Gods! I remember when your eldest, was in low-grade and now your youngest is in 9th?

Time really flies when you're having fun!

Which reminds me that I have a B-Day coming up soon & I'll be pushing towards 90!

Yeah, the oldest is about to turn 21, and the youngest is about to go into 9th grade. He'll be 15 in August and be starting Driver's Ed. Crazy stuff.

 

[jawnTEM]

Now you're going to be addicted. Haha

I think the most amazing and pleasurable things about playing, was that my G-Son, was not only going into combat but he was helping me as much as possible. Rushing to my rescue, giving me hints, pointers, & keeping me alive. (He's only 12)!

 

[brian.vespucci]

https://www.gamespot.com/gallery/th...s-you-need-to-download-right-now/2900-5474/#3

Apparently all these games have demos. Gonna look through them for anything interesting. You should do the same!

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Has anyone ever heard of Nolvus? It's an automatic installer for a huge custom mod list for Skyrim. It includes like a thousand mods, and it sets it all up for you so it's guaranteed to actually work if you have the hardware to run it. It makes Skyrim look next gen. When I get through all the games on my list to play, I'll probably end up trying it out. It looks amazing.

 

[brian.vespucci]

New Doom looks incredible.

 

[FinalDrive]

Has anyone ever heard of Nolvus? It's an automatic installer for a huge custom mod list for Skyrim. It includes like a thousand mods, and it sets it all up for you so it's guaranteed to actually work if you have the hardware to run it. It makes Skyrim look next gen. When I get through all the games on my list to play, I'll probably end up trying it out. It looks amazing.

That is... one hell of a mod list. The auto installer part sounds a bit like Wabbajack, which I have never tried but I like the idea. Can't imagine doing that all manually, considering manually installing everything for Viva New Vegas was a bit tedious and that was only like 150 mods.

 

[jawnTEM]

Has anyone ever heard of Nolvus? It's an automatic installer for a huge custom mod list for Skyrim. It includes like a thousand mods, and it sets it all up for you so it's guaranteed to actually work if you have the hardware to run it. It makes Skyrim look next gen. When I get through all the games on my list to play, I'll probably end up trying it out. It looks amazing.

Really interesting, but will it work if Bethsoft inpliments a new version of Syrim? Also, I don't own the Anniversary Edition, I usualy play on LE. I do have SSE, installed but even though I don't use that many mods, many of the mods, aren't supported on it.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Really interesting, but will it work if Bethsoft inpliments a new version of Syrim? Also, I don't own the Anniversary Edition, I usualy play on LE. I do have SSE, installed but even though I don't use that many mods, many of the mods, aren't supported on it.

If you have Skyrim SE, you can buy an upgrade to Anniversary Edition, and it costs less than buying the whole version of that game. That's probably what I'll do if I try it out.

 

[jawnTEM]

I'll have to look through the list of mods above and see if there are any that I like. Currently, I only have about 20~30. Some house mods, graphics, companion mods, & minor changes.

When they came out with SE, I lost a lot of good mods that weren't compatable and the modders that made them quit modding. That forced me to lose a lot of mods that I enjoyed, so I never really got into SE that much. Then they came out with AE and I just gave up on it and started playing a different game.

 

[FinalDrive]

I don't think I have played Skyrim since the Special Edition came out, initially due to the same reason of broken mod support and heavier system requirements. Pretty sure most of the mods I used in the day have either been updated or someone else made something similar for SE, though very niche mods maybe not, idk. Sucks that they want $20 for the AE upgrade considering what is added, though it looks like it has dropped to about half that on sale, so watchlisting it on ITAD might be beneficial.

 

[RHWarrior]

Just now, I was watching my 12 yo, playing a game that looked really facinating! It was called Earth Defense Force 4.1. Looked it up on Steam and I may get it as it's an MMO and I can play it with him. It seems that there are multiple versions of this game. Anyone else play it, and is it any good?

Yes, I mean its obv. low production value and fairly simple, but surprisingly fun, maybe because its so incredibly campy...

 

[gsilver]

THIS:

 

[BigPete7978]

Just restarted Sleeping Dogs on PC. Damn I forgot how good this game is.

 

[jawnTEM]

Just restarted Sleeping Dogs on PC. Damn I forgot how good this game is.

That's one of the games I wanted to play. Then I started with DDDA, then Starfield came along, and now DD2.

Say, I wonder if cloning would help? Then I could play more than one game at a time.

 

[gsilver]

Looks like Forza 4 is 80% off and is expected to get delisted at the end of the year.

//Going to pick it up because that's a decent price and at this point, I don't intend to renew Game Pass when mine runs out next year.
Not sure I really need 4 over 5 for any particular reason, but cheap is cheap, and due to the delisting, it may be a while before 5 becomes that cheap.

Though unlike other companies, Microsoft says that they intend to keep the online portion of the game up, and the delisting is entirely due to licenses expiring.

 

[FinalDrive]

Horizon 4 was pretty good, I put about 450 hours into it. Well worth the discounted price, even just to fart around on a new map and explore for a while. Kind of miss the seasons, Mexico just goes from hot and dry, to hot and dry with one storm on the map, or a little snow on one mountain/volcano. Think the most fun game in the series was FH3 overall.

I remember creating a custom race from the "Derwentwater Trail" race and it wouldn't let me save with the race name "Derwentwater Trail Custom". It baffled me for several minutes until I realized it was seeing "twat" in the name and getting restricted. Kind of funny for a UK based title, thought that was an essential part of the vocabulary there.

 

[MicroNort]

That's one of the games I wanted to play. Then I started with DDDA, then Starfield came along, and now DD2.

Say, I wonder if cloning would help? Then I could play more than one game at a time.

Wouldn't work. I did this and the clone ended up killing the original, I am the clone

 

[Kanejr00]

Left 4 Dead bundle is $1.48.

 

[brian.vespucci]

Yeah, Steam is having their summer sale. Just a heads-up guys!

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Yeah, Steam is having their summer sale. Just a heads-up guys!

Thanks for the heads up. I was planning on buying the Steam version of Starfield soon, and it has a pretty decent discount right now. So now is the right time to buy, I guess.

 

[jawnTEM]

We were discussing Skyrim Anniversery Ed, earlier. I didn't want to pay $20 but $10 might be ac ceptable

I'll also be nabbing me a few for gifting! Makes good gifts for family.

Which reminds me that I have another new build coming up. A grandaughter feels left out from all her brothers getting builds.

Is there an end with how long you can hold a game before claiming?

 

[brian.vespucci]

Interesting stuff.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/pile-of-shame

Out of all the registered Steam accounts in the world, only 10%, or about 73 million in SteamIDFinder’s database, are public. Based on data from those accounts, we calculate that collectively there’s around $1.9 billion / £1.4 billion worth of games that have been purchased and then never played even a single time. Times that by ten, to roughly account for all the Steam profiles that are not public, and you arrive at $19 billion, more than the gross national product of Nicaragua, Niger, Chad, or Mauritius.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Interesting stuff.

https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/pile-of-shame

Out of all the registered Steam accounts in the world, only 10%, or about 73 million in SteamIDFinder’s database, are public. Based on data from those accounts, we calculate that collectively there’s around $1.9 billion / £1.4 billion worth of games that have been purchased and then never played even a single time. Times that by ten, to roughly account for all the Steam profiles that are not public, and you arrive at $19 billion, more than the gross national product of Nicaragua, Niger, Chad, or Mauritius.

I'm sure I've done my part to add to that. Haha. But I think most of mine were discounted, though. The only game I paid a lot of money for and then never really played was Cyberpunk.

 

[MicroNort]

Just started West of Dead (a rogue style isometric shooter/explorer) and also purchased Pacific Overdrive (currently on sale at Steam and I got a bit extra off by choosing a bundle with it in that included another game I already had!)

 

[gsilver]

Fairly sure that the 8 or so games a month from Humble (that works out to $1.50 a game) + other bundles probably inflates my account to some absurd number, at least according to the tool.

Games aren't a finite resource, guys.
At least by any practical measurement.

 

[jawnTEM]

Just started West of Dead (a rogue style isometric shooter/explorer) and also purchased Pacific Overdrive (currently on sale at Steam and I got a bit extra off by choosing a bundle with it in that included another game I already had!)

Ah..., Gifting time!

I mainly purchase bundles so I can gift them. I have so many back log games that I'll most likely never get them played. I used to download and store them on my secondary drive in case I wanted to play one, but I don't even do that now.

 

[MicroNort]

Ah..., Gifting time!

I mainly purchase bundles so I can gift them. I have so many back log games that I'll most likely never get them played. I used to download and store them on my secondary drive in case I wanted to play one, but I don't even do that now.

Unfortunately not. It seems that I just got Pacific Drive but no key for the other as it said the key can't be given as a gift so I simply didn't get it. Funny thing is I never bought the other game (I think it was the Long Dark) so I suspect it was a freebie at some point.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I bought Starfield on the Steam sale for 33% off. After I'm done with Forbidden West, I'll play it again in preparation for the expansion pack coming out. My wife ended up getting Forza Horizon 4 on the sale. She's playing it now and loving it. Honestly, I think I like it better than 5. I like the setting better.

 

[FinalDrive]

I splurged on this sale, picked up Immortals Fenyx Rising and Far Cry 5 Gold. I beat Fenyx back when I had Ubisoft+ for a while, but it didn't have the DLC at that point. Same deal with Far Cry 5.

Was tempted to pick up Far Cry 6, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the last time I played it at launch. The enemy spawn distance was garbage, trying to clear an outpost being all stealthy, and when you make it to the other side of the outpost, the posted guards you killed at the start are alive again. Not reinforcements, just "you wandered too far so we're putting the guards back". Don't know if they ever fixed that, but it made it frustrating to play.

 

[brian.vespucci]

I splurged on this sale, picked up Immortals Fenyx Rising and Far Cry 5 Gold. I beat Fenyx back when I had Ubisoft+ for a while, but it didn't have the DLC at that point. Same deal with Far Cry 5.

Was tempted to pick up Far Cry 6, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the last time I played it at launch. The enemy spawn distance was garbage, trying to clear an outpost being all stealthy, and when you make it to the other side of the outpost, the posted guards you killed at the start are alive again. Not reinforcements, just "you wandered too far so we're putting the guards back". Don't know if they ever fixed that, but it made it frustrating to play.

I have also considered picking up a Far Cry game. They are all so cheap, I want to try the series out.

Out of the ones you have played, which would you recommend the most?

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I splurged on this sale, picked up Immortals Fenyx Rising and Far Cry 5 Gold. I beat Fenyx back when I had Ubisoft+ for a while, but it didn't have the DLC at that point. Same deal with Far Cry 5.

Was tempted to pick up Far Cry 6, but I still have a bad taste in my mouth from the last time I played it at launch. The enemy spawn distance was garbage, trying to clear an outpost being all stealthy, and when you make it to the other side of the outpost, the posted guards you killed at the start are alive again. Not reinforcements, just "you wandered too far so we're putting the guards back". Don't know if they ever fixed that, but it made it frustrating to play.

Fenyx Rising is one awesome game. That was one game I 100 percented. I played it on Game Pass, though.

 

[jawnTEM]

Btw, DD2 is free to download and play for a limited time.

 

[FinalDrive]

I have also considered picking up a Far Cry game. They are all so cheap, I want to try the series out.

Out of the ones you have played, which would you recommend the most?

3 and 5 were my favorites.

FC1 - I played it. Don't remember much about it beyond that it was demanding at the time. Didn't finish.

FC2 - While many people love FC2, I really couldn't get into it. I played it after 3, so there were a lot of QOL features missing. Didn't finish.

*FC3 - Tied for best, great story, fun gameplay loop and one of the most memorable villains in gaming. Little dated, but still great. Finished a few times.

*Blood Dragon - Yeah, 80's Sci-Fi action weirdness. I loved it, very funny and fun. Spin-off/expansion, but fun as hell if you like the 80's action movie tropes. Finished.

FC4 - It was good. I wasn't as invested as 3, but it did a good job of expanding and improving on the formula. Prefer 3 and 5 though. Finished.

Primal - Eh, never really got far into it. The idea of a 10,000BC setting was OK, but it didn't gel with me. Didn't finish.

*FC5 - IMO the most refined from a gameplay perspective. Just about anything can be silenced making for some great stealth options. Good story, somewhat familiar setting, and some cool set-pieces. Finished.

New Dawn - Played a bit. Might be worth picking up as part of the bundle as it isn't bad, but it wasn't as good as 5. Didn't finish.

FC6 - I probably need to revisit this one. It had potential, and some good humor but as I stated before there were some bad gameplay decisions at launch. Didn't Finish.

 

[brian.vespucci]

3 and 5 were my favorites.

FC1 - I played it. Don't remember much about it beyond that it was demanding at the time. Didn't finish.

FC2 - While many people love FC2, I really couldn't get into it. I played it after 3, so there were a lot of QOL features missing. Didn't finish.

*FC3 - Tied for best, great story, fun gameplay loop and one of the most memorable villains in gaming. Little dated, but still great. Finished a few times.

*Blood Dragon - Yeah, 80's Sci-Fi action weirdness. I loved it, very funny and fun. Spin-off/expansion, but fun as hell if you like the 80's action movie tropes.

FC4 - It was good. I wasn't as invested as 3, but it did a good job of expanding and improving on the formula. Prefer 3 and 5 though.

Primal - Eh, never really got far into it. The idea of a 10,000BC setting was OK, but it didn't gel with me.

*FC5 - IMO the most refined from a gameplay perspective. Just about anything can be silenced making for some great stealth options. Good story, somewhat familiar setting, and some cool set-pieces.

New Dawn - Played a bit. Might be worth picking up as part of the bundle as it isn't bad, but it wasn't as good as 5.

FC6 - I probably need to revisit this one. It had potential, and some good humor but as I stated before there were some bad gameplay decisions at launch.

Going to pick up 5 for $6. Let's go!

 

[FinalDrive]

Going to pick up 5 for $6. Let's go!

I would recommend getting the gold edition for $3 more if you haven't pulled the trigger already. The DLC looks promising, at that price for sure.

 

[brian.vespucci]

I would recommend getting the gold edition for $3 more if you haven't pulled the trigger already. The DLC looks promising, at that price for sure.

After looking into it. The DLC contains.

Hours of Darkness, Lost On Mars, and Dead Living Zombies.

Just going by the names. Seems like they are going with fun over realism. Nothing wrong with that!

 

[gsilver]

I have also considered picking up a Far Cry game. They are all so cheap, I want to try the series out.

Out of the ones you have played, which would you recommend the most?

Far Cry 1 is by far my favorite in the series, but it's a very different game than the others. It's also pretty ancient by now. This is basically "Crysis 0"
Far Cry 2 has a lot of questionable design decisions, but there's a very good and unique game underneath.
Far Cry 3 is the start of the 'modern' series. I liked it a lot at the time, but I've since become tired of the Ubisoft formula
Far Cry: Blood Dragon is basically Far Cry 3 expandalone with a sci-fi skin. I freaking loved this one.

Far Cry 4 was in the shadow of Far Cry 3, being too similar for my tastes.
I haven't played anything past that.

 

[east1226]

I beat FC 1, 3, 5, and Blood Dragon. BD was a blast. Played 2, but it didn't click.

 

[gsilver]

Well, looks like my RPG after Final Fantasy 8 was Star Ocean Second Story R instead of FF7

Overall a pretty fun game, and speeding it up to 180-250% speed outside of story sequences made it a bit more manageable.
The story could have been a lot better, as the 2nd half is almost entirely detached from the first, and neither half is particularly satisfying, especially as the first half of the story feels truncated.

Not really the most balanced game, either, since you're heavily encouraged to completely break the game's mechanical progression, and it has some ultra-powerful enemies on the map that are only beatable once you do. I defeated one of them with my end-game party, and tried two others, but could barely make a dent on them. Meanwhile, random encounters in the final dungeon were so weak compared to my party that they could barely even damage my party when I chose not to fight back. It also takes inventory clutter to an extreme, with dozens, if not hundreds, of nearly-identical items that all take up different slots, and even clearing them out is a lot of work.

This was my first time going through the game, so I don't really have a frame of reference for the PS1 original. It may be better with sufficient nostalgia goggles.

 

[MicroNort]

Have your gaming preferences changed over the years? I'm not talking about genre, but how much effort you are prepared to put into a game. Most recently I'm being pulled toward shorter games, the rogue type games where you can have a meaningful session in 30 mins - 1 hour. I'm finding it very difficult to motivate myself to start something that I know is going to require a lot of time.

 

[FinalDrive]

Have your gaming preferences changed over the years? I'm not talking about genre, but how much effort you are prepared to put into a game. Most recently I'm being pulled toward shorter games, the rogue type games where you can have a meaningful session in 30 mins - 1 hour. I'm finding it very difficult to motivate myself to start something that I know is going to require a lot of time.

I can relate to that. Been into Vampire Survivors recently, with 15-30 minute runs that feel rewarding. I really liked Hades for rewarding but relatively short sessions. Still feeling out Hades 2. The Metroidvania genre has been good for this kind of play for me too. It's kind of tough finding shorter experiences though, considering how many games are breaking 60+ hour investments.

To manage massive/long games I try to break them into chunks to keep myself from getting overwhelmed, especially useful for large games that I have played before. Like Tomb Raider, playing through for 1-2 campfires, Fenyx Rising 1-2 vaults or a dozen Points of Intrest, Far Cry 5 take down 2-3 outposts. I have even found myself playing through a single mission in games like Doom or other stage/mission based games. That way I can say to myself if I had about 2 hours to play, that I made progress on 2-3 games today.

I still get games that will take over to dominate game time, like the Persona series, Zelda series, Starfield, and New Vegas have fairly recently

 

[WoodenSaucer]

Have your gaming preferences changed over the years? I'm not talking about genre, but how much effort you are prepared to put into a game. Most recently I'm being pulled toward shorter games, the rogue type games where you can have a meaningful session in 30 mins - 1 hour. I'm finding it very difficult to motivate myself to start something that I know is going to require a lot of time.

Most of what I play are longer games. So my preferences haven't changed in that way. What has changed is I don't have the patience for games that are really hard.

 

[gsilver]

I grew up playing extremely short games, since it was mostly Dos shareware. Something like an actual Roguelike, Hack/Nethack, with its save systems and beatable campaign, was actually one of the longer ones I had back then. On my old Dos computer, I had a batchfile that was literally called 'playall' that went through every game on the hard drive. None of them were designed to take >30 minutes, except Hack.

I've very much gone back to shorter games. When something's <5 hours, it's likely to draw my attention. I'm also playing a lot of retro games these days, which are generally that length. I just beat Rocket Knight Adventures yesterday. And it's really moreso the game length that's drawing me to retro games, as modern 'retro-inspired' games can be much better than actual retro games, but then they make them way too long.


Though I don't really like what they call Rougelike these days, as it feels like I'm just doing the same level over and over again. I just don't have the patience to do that anymore* Even with retro games, I'll use savestates, and just won't do the whole 'start the game from the beginning if you run out of lives (or just can't manage it in one sitting)' like I had to back then.


* Unless it's called Dark Souls, for some reason.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

I grew up playing extremely short games, since it was mostly Dos shareware. Something like an actual Roguelike, Hack/Nethack, with its save systems and beatable campaign, was actually one of the longer ones I had back then. On my old Dos computer, I had a batchfile that was literally called 'playall' that went through every game on the hard drive. None of them were designed to take >30 minutes, except Hack.

I've very much gone back to shorter games. When something's <5 hours, it's likely to draw my attention. I'm also playing a lot of retro games these days, which are generally that length. I just beat Rocket Knight Adventures yesterday. And it's really moreso the game length that's drawing me to retro games, as modern 'retro-inspired' games can be much better than actual retro games, but then they make them way too long.


Though I don't really like what they call Rougelike these days, as it feels like I'm just doing the same level over and over again. I just don't have the patience to do that anymore* Even with retro games, I'll use savestates, and just won't do the whole 'start the game from the beginning if you run out of lives (or just can't manage it in one sitting)' like I had to back then.


* Unless it's called Dark Souls, for some reason.

Did you ever play the actual original Rogue game? I loved it back in the day when I didn't know any better. Later on, I played the Apshai trilogy on my C64, which was pretty much the same thing, only with slightly more advanced graphics. But even in my C64 days, I played longer games, like Legacy of the Ancients and Questron.

Gateway to Apshai:

 

[gsilver]

Did you ever play the actual original Rogue game? I loved it back in the day when I didn't know any better. Later on, I played the Apshai trilogy on my C64, which was pretty much the same thing, only with slightly more advanced graphics. But even in my C64 days, I played longer games, like Legacy of the Ancients and Questron.

Gateway to Apshai:

The closest to playing Rogue was a PSP homebrew version of it. I mostly remember that in it, Ice Monsters were these terrifying creatures that showed up on level 1, but aggressively pursued and could instantly kill the player.
I played a bit of a different version of Rogue sometime later, and found that in that version, the dreaded ice monster was slow and at most could stun the player for a few turns.

I did get the Temple of Apshai Trilogy release at some point. My early gaming was basically "What can I afford on a $1.25 / week allowance and ancient hardware" which put most 'full' games out-of-reach, especially with parents who were not at all interested in encouraging games as a hobby, so thrift stores (Atari) and the Public Brand Software catalog (Dos shareware) were almost exclusively where I got games from. Even blank floppies were really expensive... which led to a lot of data loss when I had to rely on repurposed AOL floppies for storage, as those were never designed to survive beyond a single install of the software... and AOL itself was out-of-reach, as there were no local numbers and long-distance calls were prohibitively expensive.

Temple of Apshai was one of the games that I managed to get from a Babbage's bargain bin at some point, but I lived in the middle of nowhere, so being able to make it to one was rare.
Even the thrifted Atari games were a bit difficult to get, as my home town didn't even have a thrift store.

 

[WoodenSaucer]

The closest to playing Rogue was a PSP homebrew version of it. I mostly remember that in it, Ice Monsters were these terrifying creatures that showed up on level 1, but aggressively pursued and could instantly kill the player.
I played a bit of a different version of Rogue sometime later, and found that in that version, the dreaded ice monster was slow and at most could stun the player for a few turns.

I did get the Temple of Apshai Trilogy release at some point. My early gaming was basically "What can I afford on a $1.25 / week allowance and ancient hardware" which put most 'full' games out-of-reach, especially with parents who were not at all interested in encouraging games as a hobby, so thrift stores (Atari) and the Public Brand Software catalog (Dos shareware) were almost exclusively where I got games from. Even blank floppies were really expensive... which led to a lot of data loss when I had to rely on repurposed AOL floppies for storage, as those were never designed to survive beyond a single install of the software... and AOL itself was out-of-reach, as there were no local numbers and long-distance calls were prohibitively expensive.

Temple of Apshai was one of the games that I managed to get from a Babbage's bargain bin at some point, but I lived in the middle of nowhere, so being able to make it to one was rare.
Even the thrifted Atari games were a bit difficult to get, as my home town didn't even have a thrift store.

You can play the original Rogue online now.

Rogue | Play game online!

Rogue is a dungeon crawling video game by Michael Toy and Glenn Wichman and later contributions by Ken Arnold. Play Rogue online here, in web browser!

playclassic.games

 

[BigPete7978]

Just picked up The Last Of Us Part I on Steam Summer Sale. Never played it before.

 

[MicroNort]

Did you ever play the actual original Rogue game? I loved it back in the day when I didn't know any better. Later on, I played the Apshai trilogy on my C64, which was pretty much the same thing, only with slightly more advanced graphics. But even in my C64 days, I played longer games, like Legacy of the Ancients and Questron.

Gateway to Apshai:

I'd be curious to know what people consider as the original rogue game. I used to play a game called "Adventure" on a friend's BBC Micro, probably around 1983 where you would explore, find items, upgrade, die and then start all over again, very similar to what people consider a "rogue" game today.

 

[MicroNort]

Though I don't really like what they call Rougelike these days, as it feels like I'm just doing the same level over and over again. I just don't have the patience to do that anymore* Even with retro games, I'll use savestates, and just won't do the whole 'start the game from the beginning if you run out of lives (or just can't manage it in one sitting)' like I had to back then.

Rogue games are basically the old arcade games as they are pretty much the same, you start with nothing, get as far as you can and then start again, with nothing. Only difference is in the games of today they let you carry something over so it is a little easier in your next attempt.

 

[gsilver]

Rogue games are basically the old arcade games as they are pretty much the same, you start with nothing, get as far as you can and then start again, with nothing. Only difference is in the games of today they let you carry something over so it is a little easier in your next attempt.

I get that you're trying to educate me on what Rogue is, but I have to ask, do you know what Nethack is? It was the de-facto most popular of the traditional Roguelikes.

When I had just Hack, it was a singular game, and I didn't have access to anything else, but when I got internet access, I got things like Nethack, Moria, Ragnarock, Angband, etc, and going back to the original Rogue when I had access to all of these larger and better games seemed kind of silly. On the PC, Rogue itself was a paid game, while the others were shareware, so it wasn't even really worth a consideration when operating on a near-zero budget.

I played a ton of those games back in the day. These days, what they call Roguelike isn't like Rogue at all, the permanent progression means a fair bit of grinding, and I'm sort of just past doing randomly generated levels over and over that all feel the same when I can play experiences with proper level design.