Official # # # OHHHHHHHHHHH ELDEN RING -- THE OFFICIAL THREAD # # #

[Dante-]

I’m not experiencing any difficulty issues that other people are experiencing. I’ve spent a good amount of time exploring, though, which has allowed me to get to Shadow Realm Blessing level 8. Everyone is using this new feature to increase their power, right? So far the difficulty feels like a pretty natural continuation from the endgame areas of the main game.

To be honest, outside of a couple of bosses I didn't find anything to be a problem in the end. I have some optional bosses in the hidden areas to do but outside of that all of the story bosses apart from two were fine for me. With one of them it turned out I was very underleveled.

I didn't have many Scadutree blessings initially which was part of the problem but I've been collecting more since. Currently level 18.

 

[Karkashan]

You know, I may not be the best at this game, but at the very least I'm not at the level where I summon real people to fight an open world boss by themselves while I do my best to cower as close to the grace as possible. Like this one summoner did to me just a bit ago.

Literally had to run back over to him to put a pause to the fight so I could use warming stones to heal myself up before going back in.

 

[BasketCase9483]

To be honest, outside of a couple of bosses I didn't find anything to be a problem in the end. I have some optional bosses in the hidden areas to do but outside of that all of the story bosses apart from two were fine for me. With one of them it turned out I was very underleveled.

I didn't have many Scadutree blessings initially which was part of the problem but I've been collecting more since. Currently level 18.

The DLC is being review bombed for being too hard, but I also think it’s just souls fans being stubborn and not wanting to use spirit ashes. It’s like the gank fight I mentioned earlier, as soon as I said “fuck this” and used spirit ashes I did it first time. The game is clearly designed to use them even if it’s more satisfying to solo bosses.

 

[Codered5]

The DLC is being review bombed for being too hard, but I also think it’s just souls fans being stubborn and not wanting to use spirit ashes. It’s like the gank fight I mentioned earlier, as soon as I said “fuck this” and used spirit ashes I did it first time. The game is clearly designed to use them even if it’s more satisfying to solo bosses.

Yes it is, but the problem is when you use them the difficulty goes from brutal to easiest souls ever.

 

[BasketCase9483]

Yes it is, but the problem is when you use them the difficulty goes from brutal to easiest souls ever.

Well I think that means the game is too easy, not too hard, as it’s an intended mechanic.

 

[alcatraz06]

Not me missing the entrance to the second half of Castle Ensis because it was night on my first runthrough, then only going back after beating a boss that gave me almost 500k runes.

Spoiler

Bayle

Second half? I thought the castle is complete after the twin moon knight. There's another section I missed?

 

[gsilver]

So, as far as I can tell... You're just not supposed to be able to beat those furnace golems with a melee build?

It's got some clear magic weaknesses, but melee does almost nothing (especially when the golems have leg guards) and even if it falls over, there's a good chance that the critical spot is unreachable, because even a slight difference in elevation prevents it. Even when you *do* hit the critical spot... It's still going to take another 5 minutes of perfectly dodging every attack to finish it off.
If you get knocked off of Torrent, the golem is already mid-attack by the time you get back up, with no time to jump, so a respawned Torrent is already at critical health.

Spoiler

And the wiki has about 100 spam messages saying to use an item made by one-use consumable... that you only get from having already defeated one.
Good luck if you miss...

 

[BasketCase9483]

So, as far as I can tell... You're just not supposed to be able to beat those furnace golems with a melee build?

It's got some clear magic weaknesses, but melee does almost nothing (especially when the golems have leg guards) and even if it falls over, there's a good chance that the critical spot is unreachable, because even a slight difference in elevation prevents it. Even when you *do* hit the critical spot... It's still going to take another 5 minutes of perfectly dodging every attack to finish it off.
If you get knocked off of Torrent, the golem is already mid-attack by the time you get back up, with no time to jump, so a respawned Torrent is already at critical health.

Spoiler

And the wiki has about 100 spam messages saying to use an item made by one-use consumable... that you only get from having already defeated one.
Good luck if you miss...

Yeah that happens to me, I staggered it and then couldn’t even do the Crit because of the shape of the land.

As for using an item…

Spoiler

there is one you wake up by throwing a fire furnace pot into it. I have no idea if it would work, but maybe you can kill them by using some kind of ice pot on them?

 

[Karkashan]

Second half? I thought the castle is complete after the twin moon knight. There's another section I missed?

When I went there the first time, before even going to the Tower district, it was night by the time I saw the section to the right of the locked gate halfway through. As such I couldn't see the platforms on the edge of the waterfall and thought that wasn't a path forward; I then assumed the gate would unlock somewhere else via story progression.

 

[deuce985]

The DLC is being review bombed for being too hard, but I also think it’s just souls fans being stubborn and not wanting to use spirit ashes. It’s like the gank fight I mentioned earlier, as soon as I said “fuck this” and used spirit ashes I did it first time. The game is clearly designed to use them even if it’s more satisfying to solo bosses.

You're on point, partially. It's basically because the DLC contradicts typical Souls game design with the scaling. So, yes, the summons play into this part of the discussion because many Souls players find this cheating and don't want to rely on them. In a way, you can look at this DLC as more of a different design. I think it's natural a lot of players won't like it.


This DLC leans HEAVY into the RPG side of a Souls game and no Souls game has actually done that. You're basically looking at DPS checks if you don't lvl which was not the case previously. You could actually realistically smash every boss in ER in just a few minutes. If you do that here you're not going to sit around beating on a boss for over 30 minutes.


I and many players find that DPS checks are typically lazy design because it just adds massive HP sponges and artificially inflates the challenge. It's tedious and not fun because you're forced to then lvl when a big part of these games for some players is playing it at their own pace and still being able to reasonably do the content fast. A lot of players are resorting to looking where to get the items so they can get around the power scaling which is also in itself an issue by design because if they feel they need to do this all the time, you just went against the self-discovery aspect of a Souls game. it shows that players do not like the design.


Probably wouldn't be an issue if it wasn't a direct contradiction to FS design from their own games. I think the DLC is fine personally except the scaling.

 

[BasketCase9483]

You're on point, partially. It's basically because the DLC contradicts typical Souls game design with the scaling. So, yes, the summons play into this part of the discussion because many Souls players find this cheating and don't want to rely on them. In a way, you can look at this DLC as more of a different design. I think it's natural a lot of players won't like it.


This DLC leans HEAVY into the RPG side of a Souls game and no Souls game has actually done that. You're basically looking at DPS checks if you don't lvl which was not the case previously. You could actually realistically smash every boss in ER in just a few minutes. If you do that here you're not going to sit around beating on a boss for over 30 minutes.


I and many players find that DPS checks are typically lazy design because it just adds massive HP sponges and artificially inflates the challenge. It's tedious and not fun because you're forced to then lvl when a big part of these games for some players is playing it at their own pace and still being able to reasonably do the content fast.


I think the DLC is fine personally except the scaling.

Well I imagine people will still eventually no hit this DLC and prove that skill still trumps DPS. It’s just that bosses are pretty relentless and clearly designed for you not to be fighting alone. Also having said that, when I’ve tried spirit ashes out here, the bosses seem to lose agro pretty quick, so they don’t seem to help as much in the base game anyway.

For example I summoned Mimic Tear for a couple of attempts at Mesmer and it barely made a difference because he was still attacking me 90% of the time anyway. Ended up beating him without it.

 

[gsilver]

As for using an item…

Spoiler

there is one you wake up by throwing a fire furnace pot into it. I have no idea if it would work, but maybe you can kill them by using some kind of ice pot on them?

I haven't managed either, but

Spoiler

The wiki message spam says that the regular firepots do some damage, but you really need the furnace ones, but to get the furnace ones, you need to defeat a furnace golem, which you'd need a furnace pot for... A chicken and egg problem, to be sure.

You find a note in a nearby village that also suggests using fire/furnace pots. Ice doesn't work, since it's kind of like an engine: A fire is desired in parts of it, but things tend to blow up if the fire is in the wrong parts. Ice wouldn't do anything.

May just wait until I feel like respec'ing into a magic build.

 

[BasketCase9483]

I haven't managed either, but

Spoiler

The wiki message spam says that the regular firepots do some damage, but you really need the furnace ones, but to get the furnace ones, you need to defeat a furnace golem, which you'd need a furnace pot for... A chicken and egg problem, to be sure.

May just wait until I feel like respec'ing into a magic build.

You don’t need to beat the golems to get the furnace pots. I crafted some before I beat one. There are some of the items you need in the world, but it does say they are rare in its description.

 

[deuce985]

Well I imagine people will still eventually no hit this DLC and prove that skill still trumps DPS. It’s just that bosses are pretty relentless and clearly designed for you not to be fighting alone. Also having said that, when I’ve tried spirit ashes out here, the bosses seem to lose agro pretty quick, so they don’t seem to help as much in the base game anyway.

For example I summoned Mimic Tear for a couple of attempts at Mesmer and it barely made a difference because he was still attacking me 90% of the time anyway. Ended up beating him without it.

It does have skill. You can no hit it and do it I'm sure. It's just that they made it a bigger DPS check due to the HP pools being bigger is the issue. I don't really think no hitting it and being able to clear it is the issue, it's that they made the boss design more tedious is the main concern with that. Some do have some really relentless attack strings too.


It's still git gud but also arguably overbalanced as well, imo. I feel like they're going to nerf some things here soon but we'll see.

 

[BasketCase9483]

It does have skill. You can no hit it and do it I'm sure. It's just that they made it a bigger DPS check due to the HP pools being bigger is the issue. I don't really think no hitting it and being able to clear it is the issue, it's that they made the boss design more tedious is the main concern with that. Some do have some really relentless attack strings too.


It's still git gud but also arguably overbalanced as well, imo. I feel like they're going to nerf some things here soon but we'll see.

Maybe, though the base game didn’t really have many nerfs to bosses, they nerfed Radahn just to help people who didn’t like using the summons (even though that was part of the way the fight was designed). The main nerfs they made were actually to weapons and ashes of war, like Hoarfrost Stomp and Sword of Night and Flame.

 

[phillyblunt90000]

 

[BasketCase9483]

Telling From Software fans to stop rolling is like telling Kojima and Rockstar fans to stop pretending their games are good.

 

[BasketCase9483]

Just got to a boss that is basically Orphan of Kos riding a horse… Miyazaki is taking the piss.

 

[Karkashan]

So, as far as I can tell... You're just not supposed to be able to beat those furnace golems with a melee build?

It's got some clear magic weaknesses, but melee does almost nothing (especially when the golems have leg guards) and even if it falls over, there's a good chance that the critical spot is unreachable, because even a slight difference in elevation prevents it. Even when you *do* hit the critical spot... It's still going to take another 5 minutes of perfectly dodging every attack to finish it off.
If you get knocked off of Torrent, the golem is already mid-attack by the time you get back up, with no time to jump, so a respawned Torrent is already at critical health.

Spoiler

And the wiki has about 100 spam messages saying to use an item made by one-use consumable... that you only get from having already defeated one.
Good luck if you miss...

There is one specific furnace golem that can't be easily dealt with with Torrent as a melee but that's due to it being a gimmick fight where you

Spoiler

go up a spirit spring and then throw some variant of heavy fire pots into the open cavity

The rest of them are rather simple with Torrent as the double jump makes dodging the majority of their attacks a breeze.

 

[Codered5]

Well I think that means the game is too easy, not too hard, as it’s an intended mechanic.

I know you know this, but the balancing on this is so amazingly bad. Case in point - ran into death knight boss. Only have 1 scadutree so knew it might be an issue. Tried about 10x with no summon. Only got him to about halfway. Summoned mimic tear on next try - dead in 20 seconds didn’t have to heal. Ridiculous.

Related comment- i am medium equipment load and legitimately couldn’t roll dodge through death knights most basic combo. He does a basic 1,2 swipe with the elden ring delay for swipe 3. The problem was swipe 2. I couldn’t dodge it, it came fast enough my first roll wasn’t complete but slow enough 1 roll couldn’t clear it. Absolutely maddening, literally don’t think I’ve encountered such a simple problem like that in any souls game. Obviously there are other things you could try i just found it so odd.

 

[gsilver]

After many losses to Messmer, I re-speced.

I was getting close a few times with my quality build, but it was a battle of attrition.

He fell after only a few tries when I split my STR/DEX to STR/DEX/Arcane and used Rivers of Blood. Seems that Messmer does not enjoy bleeding.

 

[Codered5]

FromSoft can rationalize it all they want, but this is piss poor game design. Outside of internet message boards, is there anything that stresses the importance of scadutree fragments? Like obviously you’re told where they are and how to find them, but how am I supposed to realize organically I can’t beat bosses due to not having them? Plus im running in to some real framerate issues.

In all of Bloodborne base game, the most tries on any single boss i had was 13. 3 of the first 4 bosses I’ve encountered in this dlc have required close to that. Prior to this dlc, the only FromSoft boss I’ve ever had to use any ashes/summon/public summon on was Malenia. Already had to do it.

Spare me with the git gud. I can either ruin the game through boredom by using ashes or bang my head against the wall in frustration. Or i guess abandon all natural exploration to hunt scadutree fragments.

 

[gsilver]

FromSoft can rationalize it all they want, but this is piss poor game design. Outside of internet message boards, is there anything that stresses the importance of scadutree fragments? Like obviously you’re told where they are and how to find them, but how am I supposed to realize organically I can’t beat bosses due to not having them? Plus im running in to some real framerate issues.

In all of Bloodborne base game, the most tries on any single boss i had was 13. 3 of the first 4 bosses I’ve encountered in this dlc have required close to that. Prior to this dlc, the only FromSoft boss I’ve ever had to use any ashes/summon/public summon on was Malenia. Already had to do it.

Spare me with the git gud. I can either ruin the game through boredom by using ashes or bang my head against the wall in frustration. Or i guess abandon all natural exploration to hunt scadutree fragments.

The Scaudtree fragments really aren't much different than smithing stones, except generalized, IMO. You're making way too big of deal about it. They're placed along the critical path, for the most part.

...But it *does* feel like you're forced into 60 Vigor regardless of build and certain bosses seem to require certain builds.

 

[deuce985]

FromSoft can rationalize it all they want, but this is piss poor game design. Outside of internet message boards, is there anything that stresses the importance of scadutree fragments? Like obviously you’re told where they are and how to find them, but how am I supposed to realize organically I can’t beat bosses due to not having them? Plus im running in to some real framerate issues.

In all of Bloodborne base game, the most tries on any single boss i had was 13. 3 of the first 4 bosses I’ve encountered in this dlc have required close to that. Prior to this dlc, the only FromSoft boss I’ve ever had to use any ashes/summon/public summon on was Malenia. Already had to do it.

Spare me with the git gud. I can either ruin the game through boredom by using ashes or bang my head against the wall in frustration. Or i guess abandon all natural exploration to hunt scadutree fragments.

I tried to warn you lol


I agree with you. I'm definitely not defending FS on this one. I believe it to be very poor design too for numerous reasons. Sekiro felt like an organic skill game. The difficulty in this DLC just doesn't feel like that at all. They let the RPG side way overtake the skill aspects that typically dominate a FS game and set it to the extreme.


The balancing is EXTREMELY poor because you absolutely have to have scadutree fragments and the game also feels like it's trying to railroad you into certain attributes like vigor both of which are a contradiction to FS design philosophy. More I play I'm not even sure it's even possible anymore to beat this DLC at lvl 1 like you could any FS game. Playing this DLC just makes me want a Sekiro 2 which had 0 RPG elements. I like RPGs but man I just don't in this style of game.


Because of the way it's designed in this DLC I think this is the first FS game I've played where I actually have to grind alongisde using the scadutree fragments. I'd be completely fine with more relentless attack strings if the game felt rewarding challenge wise. It doesn't because the game is telling you get your head out of ass and go grind for more scadutree fragments alongside attributes. So when those relentless strings hit they just feel cheap because they're too crushing. Yeah, it's sorta like a "git gud" in a way but just saying that is completely overlooking the core problems here lol.


You guys ever play master ninja in Ninja Gaiden? I love those games but they have atrocious balancing in certain parts and not because it has any RPG elements or anything it just feels cheap in certain sections. It just doesn't have that organic challenge feeling in sections due to balancing. This kinda feels like that to me lol. Yeah, I live with it but it's still not good game design.


I think the 2 year wait really screwed this DLC up. It almost seems like FS had no idea how to balance so they had a panic to come up with these ideas. Wonder what went in playtesting sessions for this when they were balancing it out lol. I think I was way under lvled for this DLC but I didn't really have any issues in the base ER game. The most I saw was a few late game bosses I had to do several times because they had late game scaling there too but it wasn't this bad obviously. I have basically zero margin for error in this DLC. I don't know if it's like that for you guys but there's a lot of things that just one-shot me.

 

[BasketCase9483]

I know you know this, but the balancing on this is so amazingly bad. Case in point - ran into death knight boss. Only have 1 scadutree so knew it might be an issue. Tried about 10x with no summon. Only got him to about halfway. Summoned mimic tear on next try - dead in 20 seconds didn’t have to heal. Ridiculous.

Related comment- i am medium equipment load and legitimately couldn’t roll dodge through death knights most basic combo. He does a basic 1,2 swipe with the elden ring delay for swipe 3. The problem was swipe 2. I couldn’t dodge it, it came fast enough my first roll wasn’t complete but slow enough 1 roll couldn’t clear it. Absolutely maddening, literally don’t think I’ve encountered such a simple problem like that in any souls game. Obviously there are other things you could try i just found it so odd.

I don’t actually have any problem with the death knights, think they are good fights. Had no problem dodging their attacks at medium load.

 

[BasketCase9483]

The Scaudtree fragments really aren't much different than smithing stones, except generalized, IMO. You're making way too big of deal about it. They're placed along the critical path, for the most part.

...But it *does* feel like you're forced into 60 Vigor regardless of build and certain bosses seem to require certain builds.

Yeah. While some of the fights in the DLC are BS, like the mage who summons a gank squad, I think most fights are just making people realise they aren’t as good at the game as they thought they were.

Again though, I’ve realised that the DLC is very much balanced with using spirit ashes in mind, more so than the main game and in the cases I have tried them the spirit ashes just seem to make fights more manageable rather than destroy bosses for you like they would in the base game. You still have to learn move sets even when you use them here.

 

[BasketCase9483]

FromSoft can rationalize it all they want, but this is piss poor game design. Outside of internet message boards, is there anything that stresses the importance of scadutree fragments? Like obviously you’re told where they are and how to find them, but how am I supposed to realize organically I can’t beat bosses due to not having them? Plus im running in to some real framerate issues.

In all of Bloodborne base game, the most tries on any single boss i had was 13. 3 of the first 4 bosses I’ve encountered in this dlc have required close to that. Prior to this dlc, the only FromSoft boss I’ve ever had to use any ashes/summon/public summon on was Malenia. Already had to do it.

Spare me with the git gud. I can either ruin the game through boredom by using ashes or bang my head against the wall in frustration. Or i guess abandon all natural exploration to hunt scadutree fragments.

You’ll be happy to know that they just buffed the first 10 levels of Scadertree blessing to make them more powerful for people who can’t be bothered to explore.

 

[deuce985]

Yeah looks like they're already starting to target balance which should surprise nobody.

 

[BasketCase9483]

Yeah looks like they're already starting to target balance which should surprise nobody.

Feel like they have made the fragments way too powerful now. I’m blessing level 12 and just first tried the last two bosses I fought.

 

[phillyblunt90000]

Helldivers 2 director weighs in on Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree's difficulty: 'A game for everyone is a game for no one'

The difficulty is just part of the charm.

www.pcgamer.com

 

[deuce985]

Helldivers 2 director weighs in on Elden Ring: Shadow of the Erdtree's difficulty: 'A game for everyone is a game for no one'

The difficulty is just part of the charm.

www.pcgamer.com

I'm not surprised he's completely glossing over the issue here and using difficulty as crutch in the argument. Shouldn't be surprising considering he has zero clue how to balance his own game. Helldivers 2 has major balance issues in itself and they continue to nerf everything they release into the ground. I like that game but the balancing is an absolute mess. They tried to find a place for each new weapon drop and it ends up either OP or garbage tier because they have so many weapons/tools they don't know what to do with some of them.


Probably why the population in that game has tanked in the past month. It's again, another person who uses the git gud line when he's completely ignoring what people are complaining about lol.

 

[phillyblunt90000]

I'm not surprised he's completely glossing over the issue here and using difficulty as crutch in the argument. Shouldn't be surprising considering he has zero clue how to balance his own game. Helldivers 2 has major balance issues in itself and they continue to nerf everything they release into the ground. I like that game but the balancing is an absolute mess. They tried to find a place for each new weapon drop and it ends up either OP or garbage tier because they have so many weapons/tools they don't know what to do with some of them.


Probably why the population in that game has tanked in the past month. It's again, another person who uses the git gud line when he's completely ignoring what people are complaining about lol.

Yeah prolly. Could also just have a different opinion on how his game should be balanced. People gonna leave anyway, especially when most are just playing because of the hype anyway. Doesn’t mean you gotta cater to every complaint. Not every game will be for everyone. I’d respect them less if they just made knee jerk balance changes to avoid criticism.

Sometimes people do need to get better tho. The problem is they wanna have their cake and eat it too. They put a stigma on using summons cause they can’t brag about a solo run then complain when the game is too hard without them. Either you need help or don’t lol

 

[Dante-]

Feel like they have made the fragments way too powerful now. I’m blessing level 12 and just first tried the last two bosses I fought.

Depends which bosses they were. There are some that were already very easy imo.

 

[gsilver]

Some bosses took a few tries, but it wasn't until Messmer that I ran into too much difficulty. I probably could have done it eventually without re-specing, but even that one was fairly easy once I changed my build to arcane for bleed damage.

I haven't tried again since the latest patch, but there are two bosses that are giving me grief now (the one at the top of the tower you unlock after Messmer, and the one at the top of the mountain) but both of those scream 'endgame' to me, while I can see on the map that there are large swathes of terrain that I haven't gotten to.
On blessing level 10.

 

[Codered5]

You’ll be happy to know that they just buffed the first 10 levels of Scadertree blessing to make them more powerful for people who can’t be bothered to explore.

It’s not that I can’t be bothered to explore, I live exploring. The game doesn’t put appropriate emphasis on the fragments or provide the appropriate feedback loop for you to figure it out in-game. You just come across someone who tells you to collect them and where a few of them are. If Reddit didn’t exist I’d have no idea how important they were.

 

[alcatraz06]

The game gives you a pop-up message saying you use the fragments to increase damage dealt and damage negation in the DLC. Not sure how much clearer they could be short of sending you a letter in the mail.

 

[BasketCase9483]

It’s not that I can’t be bothered to explore, I live exploring. The game doesn’t put appropriate emphasis on the fragments or provide the appropriate feedback loop for you to figure it out in-game. You just come across someone who tells you to collect them and where a few of them are. If Reddit didn’t exist I’d have no idea how important they were.

There is a tutorial message when you collect your first one.

 

[Codered5]

The game gives you a pop-up message saying you use the fragments to increase damage dealt and damage negation in the DLC. Not sure how much clearer they could be short of sending you a letter in the mail.

 

[gsilver]

Loaded it up again this evening and noticed that my weapon says that it does about 150 points more damage..

...Yeah. That's a big buff from the latest patch.

 

[BasketCase9483]

Loaded it up again this evening and noticed that my weapon says that it does about 150 points more damage..

...Yeah. That's a big buff from the latest patch.

Yeah I seem to be doing way more damage now. I’m conflicted on wether it’s a good thing or not.

 

[BasketCase9483]

The DLC is amazing but one of the areas is basically what would happen if Bloodborne had a Frigid outskirts. I don’t like it.

 

[_psilo_]

The DLC is being review bombed for being too hard, but I also think it’s just souls fans being stubborn and not wanting to use spirit ashes. It’s like the gank fight I mentioned earlier, as soon as I said “fuck this” and used spirit ashes I did it first time. The game is clearly designed to use them even if it’s more satisfying to solo bosses.

I don't know, I think it has more to do with Scadu Fragments. I took my time exploring the DLC rather than rush the bosses and at this point I'm finding them somewhat too easy, even without summons.

I took a small break from Mesmer, went exploring a bit, came back and killed him in 3 tries. Then I went on to the next boss and killed her in two tries. It's been considerably easier than when I bruteforced the first three bosses and had to try 20+ times each.

 

[Codered5]

I don't know, I think it has more to do with Scadu Fragments. I took my time exploring the DLC rather than rush the bosses and at this point I'm finding them somewhat too easy, even without summons.

I took a small break from Mesmer, went exploring a bit, came back and killed him in 3 tries. Then I went on to the next boss and killed her in two tries. It's been considerably easier than when I bruteforced the first three bosses and had to try 20+ times each.

Yeah I'm finding this too - I'm only at blessing level 4 but I beat Rellana and am getting close on Dancing Lion (both solo). I think it's just the shock of a new model. I ran into the lion while organically exploring at level 1. In all other FromSoft games, I could beat bosses at low levels. I couldn't here. So it's not that I can't be bothered to explore, it's that I did explore and the things I'm finding aren't intended yet, but that isn't a model they've really used previously.

 

[BasketCase9483]

I don't know, I think it has more to do with Scadu Fragments. I took my time exploring the DLC rather than rush the bosses and at this point I'm finding them somewhat too easy, even without summons.

I took a small break from Mesmer, went exploring a bit, came back and killed him in 3 tries. Then I went on to the next boss and killed her in two tries. It's been considerably easier than when I bruteforced the first three bosses and had to try 20+ times each.

Nah, this is some narrative that the media has just made up and pulled out of their arse.

No one is playing this DLC and not exploring, exploring is the best thing about it.

The issue is that From Software fans dont want to fight bosses and have Spirit Ashes do half the damage for them, but the DLC is balanced around them, which is why bosses have unrelenting attack chains. Youre supposed to use Spirit ashes to take the agro. Fans hate using ashes though, they make fights boring.

 

[BasketCase9483]

Yeah I'm finding this too - I'm only at blessing level 4 but I beat Rellana and am getting close on Dancing Lion (both solo). I think it's just the shock of a new model. I ran into the lion while organically exploring at level 1. In all other FromSoft games, I could beat bosses at low levels. I couldn't here. So it's not that I can't be bothered to explore, it's that I did explore and the things I'm finding aren't intended yet, but that isn't a model they've really used previously.

The thing is you might not be exploring as well as you think you are. This game has way more hidden areas than in the base game and you wont even see half the map unless you think outside the box.

 

[deuce985]

Nah, this is some narrative that the media has just made up and pulled out of their arse.

No one is playing this DLC and not exploring, exploring is the best thing about it.

The issue is that From Software fans dont want to fight bosses and have Spirit Ashes do half the damage for them, but the DLC is balanced around them, which is why bosses have unrelenting attack chains. Youre supposed to use Spirit ashes to take the agro. Fans hate using ashes though, they make fights boring.

It doesn't remove the fact it's a balancing issue in the game and is a direct contradiction to vanilla ER's design philosophy. Get the difficulty part out of your head. Look at it from a balancing perspective relative to player expectations to what they were playing in ER. There's many aspects of the DLC where they just took the worst parts in ER and made them worse. The power scaling is part of that argument. It's poor balancing plain and simple.


You go from extreme one-shot on everything that hits you down to find a scad fragments and all of a sudden everything is easy peasy. The balancing is way off and they took the worst boss design and slapped it into the DLC. The ashes aspect is also an issue in itself because you never felt like it was something you ever needed to even look at. I don't know how much easier it is to see they just didn't do a good job balancing this DLC which is why they're trying to skirt around it with patches now and they'll probably continue to do so.


For me personally, I think I was way under lvled for the DLC because I never felt the need to grind anything in ER. I actually thought ER was too easy outside a few late game bosses that were reinforced through power scaling. I think it's pretty arguable ER had poor balancing too they just somehow decided to make it worse in the DLC. Late game ER pretty much expresses the lack of good balance in the game and had one of the worst final boss designs of any FS game in Elden Beast. You said it's because they designed it differently in mind so that right there just proves it's poor balancing lol.

 

[Codered5]

Nah, this is some narrative that the media has just made up and pulled out of their arse.

No one is playing this DLC and not exploring, exploring is the best thing about it.

The issue is that From Software fans dont want to fight bosses and have Spirit Ashes do half the damage for them, but the DLC is balanced around them, which is why bosses have unrelenting attack chains. Youre supposed to use Spirit ashes to take the agro. Fans hate using ashes though, they make fights boring.

Agreed on this, that is my issue with it. I like the "dance" with the boss 1 on 1. You feel amazing achievement when you finally have their steps down and get that kill. Feeling completely removed when I use ashes.

 

[Codered5]

The thing is you might not be exploring as well as you think you are. This game has way more hidden areas than in the base game and you wont even see half the map unless you think outside the box.

This may very well be true, it's just a divergence of how I'm used to paying FromSoft games.

 

[Codered5]

It doesn't remove the fact it's a balancing issue in the game and is a direct contradiction to vanilla ER's design philosophy. Get the difficulty part out of your head. Look at it from a balancing perspective relative to player expectations to what they were playing in ER. There's many aspects of the DLC where they just took the worst parts in ER and made them worse. The power scaling is part of that argument. It's poor balancing plain and simple.


You go from extreme one-shot on everything that hits you down to find a scad fragments and all of a sudden everything is easy peasy. The balancing is way off and they took the worst boss design and slapped it into the DLC. The ashes aspect is also an issue in itself because you never felt like it was something you ever needed to even look at. I don't know how much easier it is to see they just didn't do a good job balancing this DLC which is why they're trying to skirt around it with patches now and they'll probably continue to do so.


For me personally, I think I was way under lvled for the DLC because I never felt the need to grind anything in ER. I actually thought ER was too easy outside a few late game bosses that were reinforced through power scaling. I think it's pretty arguable ER had poor balancing too they just somehow decided to make it worse in the DLC. Late game ER pretty much expresses the lack of good balance in the game and had one of the worst final boss designs of any FS game in Elden Beast. You said it's because they designed it differently in mind so that right there just proves it's poor balancing lol.

I agree with a lot of this. Despite the fact, as others have pointed out, that you receive a tutorial message about the scadutree fragments, that's like the equivalent of a tutorial message telling me runes/souls are responsible for leveling up in the base game. I get it, you need them to level up your power. But I've never encountered such a blocker in a FromSoft game that is just due to completely different implementation. Is the implementation bad? No, not necessarily....but when I'm used to leveling up through souls but it's not REALLY needed if you're somewhat good at the game to now this new type of thing really is needed, I don't see how that tutorial message gets the point across. Others will disagree and that's fine and sure maybe it's impatience on my part. But still.

 

[gsilver]

Elden Ring waving a middle finger in my face:
Lots of enemies that are just disembodied hands, which have an attack which is waving their middle finger in your face

...Then making it past that, only to die at the boss... and when I revived at the Stake of Marika, my dropped runes where in the direction of the grace point instead of the boss, because I died so quickly.