and its not a rpg
I hope Fallout 4 won't be Skyrim-ized...
- Thread starter Kevin_the_Mad
- Start date
Remade? Really? I thought they were the original games exactely... my computer sucks, sadly it can't handle Steam.
It's a "Post-Nuclear RPG"
![[face_tongue]](https://cdn.statically.io/img/www.ignboards.com/styles/ign/ign/smilies/classic/stickouttongue.gif "Stick Out Tongue [face_tongue]")
The original Fallout was supposed to run using GURPS rules. More RPG, only if you play tabletop...
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But it doesnt have battle like final fantasy
Remade? Really? I thought they were the original games exactely... my computer sucks, sadly it can't handle Steam.
It's a "Post-Nuclear RPG"
The original Fallout was supposed to run using GURPS rules. More RPG, only if you play tabletop...
Remaking them wont matter, wont be any gooder by that, just look at oot 3d
I don't know what you mean with not having battle like Final Fantasy. The original Fallout is a 1996 game, so it obviously has limitations. But it has turn based battle, character customization, level progression, multiple ways to conclude the quests, multiple endings based on how you played the game... if they were not RPGs, I don't know what a RPG is. But whatever that game was, I loved that, I want more of that.
I ment turn based battles
Ok. Well, Fallout and Fallout 2 do have turn based battles. The newer ones do not. I can't say I don't like the current approach, though.
RPG = Role Playing Game, not turn based battle games. While most old RPG's did have turn based battling, this isn't at all a must for RPG's. The whole point, at least as far as I'm concerned, is getting into a character and really making him/her yours, through skill progression, etc. Its about playing a role.
Edit: And this the point of the thread I think. People want games with deeper progression systems where the RPG elements stand out and its not simply an action/adventure game.
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Games still have turn based battling, like pokemon, i dont like rpg games where you just attack instead of entering a battle scene
You should stick to JRPGs, then. Real time battles are the current trend in Western RPGs.
...you do get there are other types of RPGs then JRPGs, right? Saying the original Fallout games aren't RPGs is like saying Baldur's Gate or Dragon Age aren't RPGs.
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Im not that good at battle names, so real time battle is like in ff12?
Actually I don't play Final Fantasy, so I can't really use it as an example
Real time is like Skyrim, the later Fallouts, Zelda... like in action games in general.
Turn based battles are those like Pokémon and most japanese RPGs or older western RPGs.
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It only seems like someone stole your sweet-roll.
Right I've been reading this thread from a year ago and I decided to pitch in as a voice of reason.
Lets start here.
now I've had to dial back and shorten alot of it to make my whole argument fit
Part one, the Questening
There were very few times where I had to do a quest and it directed me to a dungeon. Very few, but dungeons in this game are important and usually are infact flooded with druager, ghosts, bandits, skeletons, skeevers, vampires, bandits, Silverhand hunters (they never seem to bother anyone other than werewolves despite their whole job is to go after the undead in general). But my only question is -who the hell would want to be in a dungeon besides those shadey types, or the reason there is a crypt there in the first place
Alot of quests in skyrim, even the side ones are non linear. hey there is this kid here, Oh no I've been locked in a cabin with three people who are annoying, and one psycho sitting on a dresser wanting me to kill one of them! If only I couldn't get shoehorned into the brother hood of darkness! Oh wait, I can kill the psycho trying to recruit me and escape with a new quest line to tell a security guard that you've defeated the leader of the local dark brother hood chapter and be sent to kill the rest of them in a beautiful show of combat prowess. There is the occasional, hey someone in a dongeon is causing problems quest, or little go to quests that are somewhat linear. but they took me to places I normally wouldn't go. Like a random quest to go to markath, I didn't know anything about markath or care till i got sent there and saved a woman from being murdered in the street.
I certainly don't complain about dungeons being 'copy pasted' because how overall different will tombs be if they are built in the same era, by the same faction, to hold the honored dead/serants to the dragons. the only reason people don't find more than druagar or skeletons down in them because most people don't have reason to venture into the often well hidden crypts to get their faces naushed by zombie-warrior-nord-mummies. and when we find groups that did go down into them for treasure or hiding, we often find them slaughtered and their journels detailing the events! Example, I went into a cave near falkreath, unassuming, but it hid a crypt to a ancient nord(drauger) in it. In the entrance was some crazy blue glowing poorly made stone alter with the bodies around it. On a pedastel with the key was a book detailing why these bandits (who were named) came into the cave, and the tragic story that lead to them being used as living sacrafices by undead drauger to start to resurrect their leader. Which I Promptly went and smashed his face to avenge them out of my own personal motive, and not a given quest line.
But more often than not quests have multiple ways to complete them, and you can even talk your way around a few! don't wanna give up your soul to Molag's balls? Don't, I didn't. He told me to sacrafice someone at his alter and I strolled out whistling ingoring him. Don't wanna be a werewolf but still be in the companions? remember that guy in the companions searching for a cure to lycanthropy?
Don't want to be the dragonborn? there's a mod for that, besides that you can ignore the main quest line completely and come back to it when you -want- shouts. Some shouts help with quest progression or theres other ways you can complete them. Tired of grinding in one or two quests because they sent you to go clear out bandits? you can look at the reasoning behind it, find little journels or even just ask the person who told you to, they may have motives to do it. Lik the Jarl of falkreath, he wants you to whipe out a group of bandits near the edge of his territory (actually out of it) so he can aquire some mines! full of rare ore. when you think of it, he says they were paying him and sending supplies to his hold anyway. But are they merely just workers gone on strike? just stuck with the generic title of 'bandit' because you'd feel bad killing 'protester'?
Part two, immersion - this also refers to classes and other things that make an Roleplaying game (RPG)
What makes a roleplaying game? A miserable pile of scripts!
Ok aside from the castlevania reference, What is really roleplaying, taking on a roll, Instead of wholey being 'dragonborn' I came up with the idea that not only dragonborn should have the blood of the dragon, I believed it should also mean they should be able to become dragons. So I downloaded a mod that allows me to transform into a dragon. Which is amazing, lets me fly, and terrorize skyrim as a dragonborn. But now lets back up to the argument,
I join one group I can still join others! no you can't, if you join the Empire at the start of the quests after doing the helgen thing, then they are happy with you running about, and the stormcloaks don't give you much sas right after the fact. And the empire ignores you at first untill you join them. But if you run out with the storm cloaks, all imperials who travel about the world immediately see you as a threat because you haven't been pardoned and were seen aiding the stormcloaks. The stormcloaks also are filled with racists, and going to them as any other race than nord doesn't make sence with immersian because they will sneer and jar you. The only reason that stands for you joining them as any other race and them letting you in is because you are the dragonborn, their savior! But if you do violent things about the world and behave evil, you do get backlash! You don't get karma, because it doesn't make sence to how people can see your karma rating automatically. But if you behave evilly or like a thief word will spread and you'll notice skyrim starting to dislike you. - coming to modding again- I have a mod that lets me kill witnesses to my crimes to keep them from reporting them (if I stop them from reaching guards or authority characters) but even basewise skyrim has it's own little way of deciding if you're good or 'evil' because the game takes these terms very subjectively.
you join the darkbrother hood, you don't immediately see people screaming and running around everytime you enter a room because your an -assassin- in those and people aren't supposed to recognize you. but yes you'll hear guards quip at you the things you've done. And guards aren't worthless, if you've committed crimes in city limits and built up a bounty they will try to arrest you, make you pay your tolls, o beat your skull in.
Class wise, you pick a standing stone that dictates your 'class' which can be changed if you find other standing stones than the origional 3. But the origional 3 are there to help you build your archetype class that you wanna go for. So you wanna be a thief, a mage, or a warrior, pick one of the three and you start working for it. but then you find other stones that aren't labeled after classes but specifically help a certain class. Magic is a ranged fighting style that can acsess summoned weapons, and has a large number of diferent sections devout to it. But so do alot of other skills. You'll more often than not find that you've leveled one handed weapons because your spells aren't always capable of killing before your manapool is depleted. Or you'll fighting from a distance using bows and arrows. Healing spells help make potions less needed in hard battles.
If you ignore the dragonborn quest line sure you are 'blessed' by Macantosh but you don't really have acsess to shouts, and dragons don't spawn in and start burning down villages or guarding their lairs, or randomly decide to start murdering bandits. But The traveling caravans will go unmolested from them. Which is nice because there are potential npcs in caravans that could become followers that -may- die (usually not they are often strong enough to hold their own) And dungeons, in this immersive perspective are filled with who you'd epect them to inhabit. Crypts hold undead and people creepy enough to want to spend time around the undead. Drauger ruins contain their once constructs or the falmer (Spoiler a race of snow elves that the dwarves betrayed and were wiped out by) who plan to one day retake the surface for themselves. Sewers are often filled with bandits and skeevers whom are escaping the law enforcement. Castles are heald by bandits, what ever miner gang that holds them, be them mercenaries or bandits that have actual group names but are refered to as 'bandits' or the foresworn. There is also the foreswarn that cover a good half of the skyrim and are quite liberal about defending it, besides doing crazy old god rituals to themselves.
Traveling wise, characters will rarely give your quests, because you already did all they need to do for them to join you. Like J'zargo, he won't join up with you unless you do this one thing for him. You already know he's in skyrim to be a wizard! so it's natural that he really won't have a family to visit on hand. Or like the other sidekicks you can pick up that run off back to their respective groups after you dismissed them. Because they are good enough to travel with the dragonborn, they don't need him/her(Dragonborn) wiping their ass for them.
I haven't adressed all of the immersion and roleplay in skyrim but I feel this surface scratching is enough.
Part three, backstory and connection to other games (even not in it's own genre)
hopefully I can't think of any other parts to this, so this will be my last wall of text.
The game is developed by a single group, a single producer. There is going to be everything they have learned at their disposal, put into it. Everything they learned that the majority of people want implemented into the game. Hearthfire introduced homes to where everything doesn't suddenly become spatially displaced like a tornado came through (unless bandits rob your home). dragonborn introduced another dragonborn who has an issue with you. And ironically he coulda actually taken over the island and come back to tameriel if he hadn't sent goons after you in the first place assuming that you would try to stop him.
I hope that Fallout 4, which is going to be coming out soon, tale tell from the studios own habbits of release and new teasers that've hit the internet from them, will be accused of being skyrim with guns, power armor, and with out shouting. INFACT I hope in 4 you're some kind of special supermutant.Or something along those lines, special somehow because you -need- to be the hero where ever in fall out needs. OR the villain that they lothe. In skyrim there wasn't as much room for villainy, because no matter what you did, the dragons burning the world down, the vampires eating people, kind of overshadowed mostly what you could do as a mortal being in skyrim. unless you walked into windhelm as a dark elf, then you may have well as been behind the entire whitegold treaty and eating nord children up untill that point with how they treat you.
I HOPE THAT WE GO TO THE COMMONWEALTH like everyone seems to be thinking with the leaked data. Because of how beautiful it will be not only being where our nation started, but where it has ended. and potentially will restart.
It's like this, We play a game because we wanna be someone rising from their crap life to something -new- something -better- to do what we want when we want WHERE WE WANT AND TO WHOM EVER LOOKS AT ME FUNNY ACROSS THE TABLE. With out the nagging of there being a game master sitting around to walk you through the story, give you poorly writen quests that he personally came up with that play out to his own little fantasies. Or worse, play in someone elses world, that has no sence, no backstory, and no reasoning behind it. People like skyrim and fallout, because you can drop into an established world. The backstory is there and you can learn the history, if you have the time to pour over hermarous mora's library or any collection of books in skyrim. You can quickly learn alot about the history of skyrim and nearby parts of tambourine. But you don't -need- that knowledge to playskyrim. You get the general gist as you go along. The same with fallout, it's not a hardcore exclusive to people who have played the other two series. Through searching I Found out in game that tiber septim's death was 200 years before the events of skyrim. which made things awkward when I found out what happened to the blades. We also got to see the depredation of groups we knew were established to what they were in skyrim, former husks of glory- Dark brotherhood. A circle of followers to be rebuilt - the blades, an established criminal organization, east empire trading company and the guild respectively.
Again, it's skyrim! and you're not the only adventurer, but one of the few living legends of skyrim. But in fallout, you're not the only lunatic with a gun, but your the only one with enough charm to and good enough aim to make it as far as you can!
Right I've been reading this thread from a year ago and I decided to pitch in as a voice of reason.
Lets start here.
now I've had to dial back and shorten alot of it to make my whole argument fit
Part one, the Questening
There were very few times where I had to do a quest and it directed me to a dungeon. Very few, but dungeons in this game are important and usually are infact flooded with druager, ghosts, bandits, skeletons, skeevers, vampires, bandits, Silverhand hunters (they never seem to bother anyone other than werewolves despite their whole job is to go after the undead in general). But my only question is -who the hell would want to be in a dungeon besides those shadey types, or the reason there is a crypt there in the first place
Alot of quests in skyrim, even the side ones are non linear. hey there is this kid here, Oh no I've been locked in a cabin with three people who are annoying, and one psycho sitting on a dresser wanting me to kill one of them! If only I couldn't get shoehorned into the brother hood of darkness! Oh wait, I can kill the psycho trying to recruit me and escape with a new quest line to tell a security guard that you've defeated the leader of the local dark brother hood chapter and be sent to kill the rest of them in a beautiful show of combat prowess. There is the occasional, hey someone in a dongeon is causing problems quest, or little go to quests that are somewhat linear. but they took me to places I normally wouldn't go. Like a random quest to go to markath, I didn't know anything about markath or care till i got sent there and saved a woman from being murdered in the street.
I certainly don't complain about dungeons being 'copy pasted' because how overall different will tombs be if they are built in the same era, by the same faction, to hold the honored dead/serants to the dragons. the only reason people don't find more than druagar or skeletons down in them because most people don't have reason to venture into the often well hidden crypts to get their faces naushed by zombie-warrior-nord-mummies. and when we find groups that did go down into them for treasure or hiding, we often find them slaughtered and their journels detailing the events! Example, I went into a cave near falkreath, unassuming, but it hid a crypt to a ancient nord(drauger) in it. In the entrance was some crazy blue glowing poorly made stone alter with the bodies around it. On a pedastel with the key was a book detailing why these bandits (who were named) came into the cave, and the tragic story that lead to them being used as living sacrafices by undead drauger to start to resurrect their leader. Which I Promptly went and smashed his face to avenge them out of my own personal motive, and not a given quest line.
But more often than not quests have multiple ways to complete them, and you can even talk your way around a few! don't wanna give up your soul to Molag's balls? Don't, I didn't. He told me to sacrafice someone at his alter and I strolled out whistling ingoring him. Don't wanna be a werewolf but still be in the companions? remember that guy in the companions searching for a cure to lycanthropy?
Don't want to be the dragonborn? there's a mod for that, besides that you can ignore the main quest line completely and come back to it when you -want- shouts. Some shouts help with quest progression or theres other ways you can complete them. Tired of grinding in one or two quests because they sent you to go clear out bandits? you can look at the reasoning behind it, find little journels or even just ask the person who told you to, they may have motives to do it. Lik the Jarl of falkreath, he wants you to whipe out a group of bandits near the edge of his territory (actually out of it) so he can aquire some mines! full of rare ore. when you think of it, he says they were paying him and sending supplies to his hold anyway. But are they merely just workers gone on strike? just stuck with the generic title of 'bandit' because you'd feel bad killing 'protester'?
Part two, immersion - this also refers to classes and other things that make an Roleplaying game (RPG)
What makes a roleplaying game? A miserable pile of scripts!
Ok aside from the castlevania reference, What is really roleplaying, taking on a roll, Instead of wholey being 'dragonborn' I came up with the idea that not only dragonborn should have the blood of the dragon, I believed it should also mean they should be able to become dragons. So I downloaded a mod that allows me to transform into a dragon. Which is amazing, lets me fly, and terrorize skyrim as a dragon
I join one group I can still join others! no you can't, if you join the Empire at the start of the quests after doing the helgen thing, then they are happy with you running about, and the stormcloaks don't give you much sas right after the fact. And the empire ignores you at first untill you join them. But if you run out with the storm cloaks, all imperials who travel about the world immediately see you as a threat because you haven't been pardoned and were seen aiding the stormcloaks. The stormcloaks also are filled with racists, and going to them as any other race than nord doesn't make sence with immersian because they will sneer and jar you. The only reason that stands for you joining them as any other race and them letting you in is because you are the dragonborn, their savior! But if you do violent things about the world and behave evil, you do get backlash! You don't get karma, because it doesn't make sence to how people can see your karma rating automatically. But if you behave evilly or like a thief word will spread and you'll notice skyrim starting to dislike you. - coming to modding again- I have a mod that lets me kill witnesses to my crimes to keep them from reporting them (if I stop them from reaching guards or authority characters) but even basewise skyrim has it's own little way of deciding if you're good or 'evil' because the game takes these terms very subjectively.
you join the darkbrother hood, you don't immediately see people screaming and running around everytime you enter a room because your an -assassin- in those and people aren't supposed to recognize you. but yes you'll hear guards quip at you the things you've done. And guards aren't worthless, if you've committed crimes in city limits and built up a bounty they will try to arrest you, make you pay your tolls, o beat your skull in.
Class wise, you pick a standing stone that dictates your 'class' which can be changed if you find other standing stones than the origional 3. But the origional 3 are there to help you build your archetype class that you wanna go for. So you wanna be a thief, a mage, or a warrior, pick one of the three and you start working for it. but then you find other stones that aren't labeled after classes but specifically help a certain class. Magic is a ranged fighting style that can acsess summoned weapons, and has a large number of diferent sections devout to it. But so do alot of other skills. You'll more often than not find that you've leveled one handed weapons because your spells aren't always capable of killing before your manapool is depleted. Or you'll fighting from a distance using bows and arrows. Healing spells help make potions less needed in hard battles.
If you ignore the dragonborn quest line sure you are 'blessed' by Macantosh but you don't really have acsess to shouts, and dragons don't spawn in and start burning down villages or guarding their lairs, or randomly decide to start murdering bandits. But The traveling caravans will go unmolested from them. Which is nice because there are potential npcs in caravans that could become followers that -may- die (usually not they are often strong enough to hold their own) And dungeons, in this immersive perspective are filled with who you'd epect them to inhabit. Crypts hold undead and people creepy enough to want to spend time around the undead. Drauger ruins contain their once constructs or the falmer (Spoiler a race of snow elves that the dwarves betrayed and were wiped out by) who plan to one day retake the surface for themselves. Sewers are often filled with bandits and skeevers whom are escaping the law enforcement. Castles are heald by bandits, what ever miner gang that holds them, be them mercenaries or bandits that have actual group names but are refered to as 'bandits' or the foresworn. There is also the foreswarn that cover a good half of the skyrim and are quite liberal about defending it, besides doing crazy old god rituals to themselves.
Traveling wise, characters will rarely give your quests, because you already did all they need to do for them to join you. Like J'zargo, he won't join up with you unless you do this one thing for him. You already know he's in skyrim to be a wizard! so it's natural that he really won't have a family to visit on hand. Or like the other sidekicks you can pick up that run off back to their respective groups after you dismissed them. Because they are good enough to travel with the dragonborn, they don't need him/her(Dragonborn) wiping their ass for them.
I haven't adressed all of the immersion and roleplay in skyrim but I feel this surface scratching is enough.
Part three, backstory and connection to other games (even not in it's own genre)
hopefully I can't think of any other parts to this, so this will be my last wall of text.
The game is developed by a single group, a single producer. There is going to be everything they have learned at their disposal, put into it. Everything they learned that the majority of people want implemented into the game. Hearthfire introduced homes to where everything doesn't suddenly become spatially displaced like a tornado came through (unless bandits rob your home). dragonborn introduced another dragonborn who has an issue with you. And ironically he coulda actually taken over the island and come back to tameriel if he hadn't sent goons after you in the first place assuming that you would try to stop him.
I hope that Fallout 4, which is going to be coming out soon, tale tell from the studios own habbits of release and new teasers that've hit the internet from them, will be accused of being skyrim with guns, power armor, and with out shouting. INFACT I hope in 4 you're some kind of special supermutant.Or something along those lines, special somehow because you -need- to be the hero where ever in fall out needs. OR the villain that they lothe. In skyrim there wasn't as much room for villainy, because no matter what you did, the dragons burning the world down, the vampires eating people, kind of overshadowed mostly what you could do as a mortal being in skyrim. unless you walked into windhelm as a dark elf, then you may have well as been behind the entire whitegold treaty and eating nord children up untill that point with how they treat you.
I HOPE THAT WE GO TO THE COMMONWEALTH like everyone seems to be thinking with the leaked data. Because of how beautiful it will be not only being where our nation started, but where it has ended. and potentially will restart.
It's like this, We play a game because we wanna be someone rising from their crap life to something -new- something -better- to do what we want when we want WHERE WE WANT AND TO WHOM EVER LOOKS AT ME FUNNY ACROSS THE TABLE. With out the nagging of there being a game master sitting around to walk you through the story, give you poorly writen quests that he personally came up with that play out to his own little fantasies. Or worse, play in someone elses world, that has no sence, no backstory, and no reasoning behind it. People like skyrim and fallout, because you can drop into an established world. The backstory is there and you can learn the history, if you have the time to pour over hermarous mora's library or any collection of books in skyrim. You can quickly learn alot about the history of skyrim and nearby parts of tambourine. But you don't -need- that knowledge to playskyrim. You get the general gist as you go along. The same with fallout, it's not a hardcore exclusive to people who have played the other two series. Through searching I Found out in game that tiber septim's death was 200 years before the events of skyrim. which made things awkward when I found out what happened to the blades. We also got to see the depredation of groups we knew were established to what they were in skyrim, former husks of glory- Dark brotherhood. A circle of followers to be rebuilt - the blades, an established criminal organization, east empire trading company and the guild respectively.
Again, it's skyrim! and you're not the only adventurer, but one of the few living legends of skyrim. But in fallout, you're not the only lunatic with a gun, but your the only one with enough charm to and good enough aim to make it as far as you can!
I think all computer games suck. That's it!!! I'm going back to board games. That'll teach everybody.