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Featured Reflection The Internet

Getting More Women Involved in the IndieWeb

I was happy to see another woman attending this IndieWeb popup event, but would like to figure out how to bring more women into the IndieWeb sphere. There are usually many fewer women than men at the IndieWeb events I’ve been to over the past year or so. (Two of twenty at yesterday’s event unless I missed someone… it is a small sample size though… 🤷‍♀️) Is it a lack of awareness, a perception issue, a lack of interest or perceived value, or another barrier that could be overcome to welcome more women to the community? Figuring out barriers is key in social marketing to help people adopt better behaviors.

Lack of Interest

I can’t imagine other women are uninterested in critically thinking about the online spaces we use; women are major users of social platforms. Social sites put a lot of mental burden on women by inviting comparison and making them feel bad about what they have — there’s a lot to be gained from moving away from toxic, draining systems and reimagining them. Yet as Oliver Burkeman pointed out in Four Thousand Weeks, we are complicit in our own submersion in social media, and Anne Helen Peterson highlights that we often don’t have mental energy for anything more. Maybe the thought of creating a new system seems hopeless, too much work and no promise that it wouldn’t just devolve into more toxicity? Or, people want to keep what they have, feeling they would lose something without the feedback and interactions of social media, even if they often make us feel worse?

Are women generally more interested in other social causes besides online surveillance and the negative cultural impacts of social media companies? Given limited time and energy, there are only so many groups anyone has time to get involved in. Perhaps this particular issue isn’t a top priority issue for most women?

Perception Barriers

Is it linked to women’s lower participation in STEM fields? A worry that they won’t fit in because they’re not programmers, or fear that they’ll “look dumb” by not knowing things and embarrass themselves? (I haven’t found this to be true but could understand a perception that it’s “meant for” programmers — I was a bit concerned before I went to my first event.) Maybe feeling like they have nothing to contribute to the movement? Worried it’ll be too hard to start a website (or just too much work)? Or simply down to an identity mismatch where they don’t see getting into this world something “people like them” do? (One of those chicken and the egg things where you can’t attract new folks until you have new folks who are like them already participating?)

As a variation on that thought, do women assume (or see in photos) that it’s mostly men at events, and they don’t want to get involved in a group that’s dominated by men? There’s a bit of cultural eye-rolling about dudes “in power” I’ve seen in recent years. (Even though the Indie Web doesn’t have a traditional leadership structure, it could be a perception.) Or maybe just want to spend their free time with other women, so are more likely to seek out groups of mostly women?

Lack of Discoverability / No Critical Mass Barrier

Mommy bloggers and influencers are a thing (with their own maybe toxic subculture), along with plenty of woman-led reading blogs, home design blogs, craft blogs, and cooking blogs, so I don’t think women are less interested in blogging — though potentially I could see that limited time might be spent more on making content and worrying less about how it’s posted? Maybe it feels like there’s no way around posting to these platforms because that’s where the people are, and there’s no solution to discoverability yet, and if you need / want to make money off (or get your personal validation from) posting then you need to go where the people are? (Especially in recent years that revenue from blog advertising has mostly gone away in favor of sponcon which often has social media posting requirements.)

Added 10/5/21:

After the Facebook and Instagram outage this week, Tantek commented that those most likely to be open to the IndieWeb were those who had the strongest emotional reaction. I then saw Meg Conley’s defense of Instagram. She shares how much of a community she’s built on Instagram, and that’s why she keeps going back. Her commitment isn’t necessarily to the platform but the conversations it engenders, and the ability to meet and connect with people. After seeing how locked in she is to connecting with her community there, and how much an outage (or Instagram’s closure) affects her ability to connect, I bet she would be open to an alternative. She already has her own website, but doesn’t seem to have comments enabled. (It appears she offers a paid subscription Discord channel that probably does a good job keeping out trolls — though may also limit others who would have participated.) If the women in her Instagram community had an easy way to interact directly through her website, to know when an update was posted they should chime in on, would they?

She also echoes my thoughts above about women using Instagram to start making money, as a low barrier to entry. Her proposal for an internet that’s less centered around social media monopolies is founded on building equity: supporting caretakers financially (UBI please!), building systems of mutual aid, and fostering racial and environmental justice. It makes sense that these would be key drivers for people to keep using social media aside from community: making money (to pay for childcare), getting support in personal emergencies, and organizing for activism. So it’s an interesting perspective to come at escaping social media from the other side, to see the barriers in the economic systems that drive the need to stay on these toxic platforms.

Added 6/23/23:

I also suspect women are less interested in taking on the burden of moderation in their own public space because of the problems with trolls and attacks through both social media and comments sections, so there may be less appeal to IndieWeb technologies like Webmention. I could see, for someone making the effort to move away from social media silos, a private community space like a Discord server offers more appeal because others perform the moderation, there is some sense of privacy in a group that must be actively joined, and it feels like a community space because other people are *there*, versus a website where there is often little interaction. Community and socialization may be something more women are interested in versus having a place of their own to publish?

By Tracy Durnell

Writer and designer in the Seattle area. Reach me at tracy.durnell@gmail.com. She/her.

7 replies on “Getting More Women Involved in the IndieWeb”

Replied to The luxury of opting out of digital noise by Vicki Boykis (★ Vicki Boykis ★)

Facebook, for better or worse, is still the platform where social events are planned. Where parent groups exchange information. Where family pictures are shared and discussed. To willingly walk away from Facebook and all of its needy notifications is to experience both immense relief and complete ostracism.
And yet, many men I know personally, and online, have been able to walk away from Facebook entirely.
As I’ve struggled with my own balance of this…what I’ve realized…is that women have been distinctly asked [to] shoulder the burden of this specific digital noise.

I’d be much more interested in reading Cal Newport’s wife’s book about how she unplugged.

Ha! This is basically how I feel about Cal Newport. And I don’t even have kids 😂
This article was making me think more about why women aren’t as involved in the IndieWeb, and how to get more women involved. From the standpoint that a lot of mom duties are reliant on social media, seems like your best bet is to focus more on women who aren’t mothers – probably women in college and in their twenties.
What’s the value proposition of a personal website for that age group? I don’t know a lot of younger people so I’m not sure how things have changed since I was in college (yikes fifteen years ago), when every artist had their own portfolio website so it felt like you needed one too if you were in art or design. Now you can just run an Instagram, or set up a Behance portfolio or probably some other cooler website. After graduating, I blogged my internship so I’d have something fresh online if anyone looked me up. Today people have LinkedIn to put themselves out there for hiring. (I obviously still think it’s valuable to have your own site under your control, but I’m not 24 😁)
I think deeper connection is the answer here. When you graduate college, you and your friends go your separate ways. Facebook and Instagram give you the semblance of staying connected but without the frequent interaction of college you drift apart – and making new friends is much harder after college. So a better way to stay in touch and communicate could be compelling, especially to a savvy group aware of the damage social media can cause to young women.
Or, you go all in on the mommy blogger / lifestyle blogger scene and try to get everyone hooked up with webmentions to port the whole community over to a new system. For example, Emily Henderson’s blog still gets (lots of) rich threaded comments. The challenge there is that people congregate around the main blog, and probably a lot of commenters don’t have websites of their own. Do people commenting see a value to having their own website when they’re maintaining a community well enough through the comments on someone else’s blog? Community alone probably isn’t enough of a selling point.
Plus, what’s the value to Emily Henderson’s business in supporting webmentions and promoting her followers joining the IndieWeb and using its tools? (Besides the goodness of her heart and wanting to support an alternative system.) More lifestyle bloggers is more competition.
Another place I see lots of women is cooking blogs – just look at the invaluable comment section on Smitten Kitchen where each recipe has dozens of people who’ve shared the changes they made to the recipe, how it turned out, and what they’d change next time. That style of commenting realistically works better for webmentions than more threaded replies – and is a more demonstrably useful reason to have your own blog, so all your recipe notes are in one spot on your own blog as well as on displayed as a webmention on the original website 🤔 Yeah, cooking blogs seem like an audience who could benefit from the IndieWeb.

What do I want the future of the Internet to look like? Last updated 2024 May 19 | More of my big questions Sub-questions What do I want out of the Internet? What’s a better way to use the Internet? How can I support the independent web? What are the social norms around blogging and…

Bookmarked Memo: Affinity Spaces by Kimberly Hirsh (kimberlyhirsh.com)

Online affinity networks have three key characteristics:
1. They are specialized, focusing on a specific affinity or interest.
2. Involvement in them is intentional; participants choose to affiliate with the network and can move easily in and out of engagement with the network.
3. “Content sharing and communication take place on openly networked online platforms” (p. 42)

I am apparently someone who is into categorization, and went aha! when I read about nurturing affinity spaces and affinity networks, recognizing the IndieWeb in them. Though defining what it is changes nothing about it, I was intrigued by this common distinction in affinity spaces:

Bommarito proposes a situated model of affinity spaces (p. 411), in which affinity spaces shift between a “passionate” state, clearly focused on a shared interest, and a “deliberative” state, when the shared interest becomes unclear and participants have to resolve challenges unrelated to their shared interest. In the “passionate” state, the primary mode of interaction is what Bommarito calls “negotiation,” in which participants exchange ideas directly related to the shared interest or the organization of the space in a way that does not supersed the established shared interest; in the “deliberative state,” it is “deliberation,” in which participants debate “the nature of the shared interest itself” (p. 412) and what the space will become…

Participants in affinity spaces must deal with two different types of challenges, which Bommarito identifies as “adaptive” or “technical” drawing on Heifetz (1994). “According to Heifetz (1994, p. 72), technical problems are those for which ‘the necessary knowledge about them already has been digested and put in the form of a legitimized set of known organizational procedures guiding what to do and role authorizations guiding who should do it’.” (p. 413) This is the kind of problem participants tend to face when an affinity space is in a passionate state, when “participation means, primarily, gaining technical knowledge and skills related to the shared interest” (p. 413) and the problems to be solved are clearly related to the space’s shared endeavor. “Adaptive challenges, on the other hand, are situations in which ‘no adequate response has yet been developed’, ‘no clear expertise can be found’ and ‘no single sage has general credibility’ (Heifetz, 1994, p. 72)” and are the kinds of challenges participants face when the space is in a deliberative state, in which participants are “identifying problems unrelated to some common endeavor while also pursuing and evaluating possible solutions as a collective.”

This seems to reflect some of the challenges in a technology space that is not solidified in many areas yet — there is still much open to interpretation and discussion in implementing IndieWeb approaches like microformats, which don’t have widespread adoption and thus can be a bit in flux. From this description, it seems the IndieWeb straddles these categories and challenges: some IndieWeb technologies are stable while others still have experimental elements and community members take different approaches to solving the same problem, and the very future of the Internet and IndieWeb’s role are somewhat up for discussion.
This presents a conundrum for the IndieWeb because while understanding something like microformats requires a bit of technical explanation, a technical background isn’t necessarily needed to have an opinion or participate in discussion, yet there may be hesitancy from non-technical folks (like me 😉) to chime in where a subject is perceived to be technical. Likewise, while following a welcoming code of conduct and friendly practices in chat, the active community is dominated by men, many with technical expertise and/or long-standing participation, and there are barriers to participation for women and marginalized groups. I don’t have any answers, but find it valuable anyway to define the problem space.

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