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What About Men?
As any feminist who talks about the problems of girls and women will know, the first question you will ever be asked is 'But what about MEN?' After eleven years of writing bestsellers about women and dismissing this question, having been very sure that the concerns of feminism and men are very different things, Caitlin Moran realised that this wasn't quite right, and that the problems of feminism are also the problems of, yes, men.
So, what about men? Why do they only go to the doctor if their wife or girlfriend makes them? Why do they never discuss their penises with each other - but make endless jokes about their balls? What is porn doing for young men? Is their fondness for super-skinny jeans leading to an epidemic of bad mental health? Are men allowed to be sad? Are men allowed to lose? Have Men's Rights Activists confused 'power' with 'empowerment'? And is Jordan B Peterson just your mum - but with some mad theory about a lobster?
In this book, Caitlin intends to answer all this and more - because if men haven't yet answered the question 'What About Men?', it's going to be down to a busy woman to do it.
So, what about men? Why do they only go to the doctor if their wife or girlfriend makes them? Why do they never discuss their penises with each other - but make endless jokes about their balls? What is porn doing for young men? Is their fondness for super-skinny jeans leading to an epidemic of bad mental health? Are men allowed to be sad? Are men allowed to lose? Have Men's Rights Activists confused 'power' with 'empowerment'? And is Jordan B Peterson just your mum - but with some mad theory about a lobster?
In this book, Caitlin intends to answer all this and more - because if men haven't yet answered the question 'What About Men?', it's going to be down to a busy woman to do it.
319 pages, Kindle Edition
Published July 6, 2023
About the author
Caitlin Moran
21 books3,856 followersCaitlin Moran had literally no friends in 1990, and so had plenty of time to write her first novel, The Chronicles of Narmo, at the age of fifteen. At sixteen she joined music weekly, Melody Maker, and at eighteen briefly presented the pop show 'Naked City' on Channel 4. Following this precocious start she then put in eighteen solid years as a columnist on The Times – both as a TV critic and also in the most-read part of the paper, the satirical celebrity column 'Celebrity Watch' – winning the British Press Awards' Columnist of The Year award in 2010 and Critic and Interviewer of the Year in 2011. The eldest of eight children, home-educated in a council house in Wolverhampton, Caitlin read lots of books about feminism – mainly in an attempt to be able to prove to her brother, Eddie, that she was scientifically better than him. Caitlin isn't really her name. She was christened 'Catherine'. But she saw 'Caitlin' in a Jilly Cooper novel when she was 13 and thought it looked exciting. That's why she pronounces it incorrectly: 'Catlin'. It causes trouble for everyone.
(from http://www.caitlinmoran.co.uk/index.p...)
(from http://www.caitlinmoran.co.uk/index.p...)
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Displaying 1 - 30 of 314 reviews
July 9, 2023
One of the worst books I have ever read. A missed opportunity to discuss the anxieties and fears of men today. No evidence just sterotypes and sweeping statements.
As a mother of three sons this book just made me angry, she reduces men to emotionless beings. She states men don't talk, I am sorry but they do. We have three sons who will openly discuss their feelings and discuss the implications of toxic masculinity and two of them are 18 and 15.
Her conversations with men are based off the opinions of five forty year old men and a overheard train conversation. Why she didnt engage with mens charities etc is beyond me.
Leave it on the shelf.
As a mother of three sons this book just made me angry, she reduces men to emotionless beings. She states men don't talk, I am sorry but they do. We have three sons who will openly discuss their feelings and discuss the implications of toxic masculinity and two of them are 18 and 15.
Her conversations with men are based off the opinions of five forty year old men and a overheard train conversation. Why she didnt engage with mens charities etc is beyond me.
Leave it on the shelf.
July 18, 2023
This is quite a difficult book to review and I have given it two stars because I think the general idea for the book comes from a place of kindness and good intention. However it is woefully under-researched and mainly based around Caitlin's opinion and that of her circle of friends and Twitter followers which are firstly self-selecting and secondly most likely from the same socio-economic background as Caitlin which she then extrapolates to a universal straight, white male audience and often writes it as fact rather than opinion. There is probably some truth within her opinions but it would have been more persuasive backed up by actual research and studies.
I spent a while trying to work out who the audience were that Caitlin was writing this book for and I think within the book promotion this has been misleading, I've seen a lot of discussions which argue that a man should have written this book and at first I felt the same way but the more that I read the more I thought it was actually aimed at Mothers of boys and when you took that to be the target audience the book made a lot more sense. It's a book which is meant to give Mothers an insight into what their boys may be encountering whilst growing up and there are times when it does this very well. Although I do not have children, I am the right age to be the target audience and whilst I had heard the names Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson prior to reading I had no knowledge of their opinions so in that sense the book does what it sets out to do, it writes about the influence of self-elected male role models such as Andrew Tate and topics such as the impact of pornography on body image and sexual ideals. What make less sense is that Caitlin herself is not a Mother of boys and within the book she seeks to solve the problems that adolescent boys may face by asking men who seem to all be 40+ and from a completely different generation who would have grown up in a totally different world.
My main issue with the book is that there were far too many sweeping generalisations and a lack of research, Caitlin admits at the beginning to knowing very little about being a man and it shows, she uses a narrow sample, picks topics and reduces men to basic stereotypes such as liking banter and football. Women are also not safe from sweeping generalisations and are described as being part of a massive sisterhood who want to pep-talk other women in toilets and share every detail of our lives. The book seems to be centred around the assumption that all men want to communicate in the same way that girls do despite there being no research that implies this to be the case. It appears that if Caitlin isn't aware of something existing she has just written as if it doesn't, she writes that there are no books about the experience of men growing up but Robert Webb's About a Boy, Russell Kane's Son of a Silverback and Jarvis Cocker's Good Pop, Bad Pop are a few that I've read in recent years.
Whilst I feel that I have been very critical there are some valid points that are made such as that not all men are the patriarchy/bad men, in reality it is a very small percentage of men and also the book recognises that the patriarchy often screws over men as hard as it does women. There is also a wonderful chapter where Caitlin interviews a family friend who has been affected in his teenage years by porn addiction which was touching and insightful and the chapter on Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson was also interesting and informative and the section on helping new Fathers bond with their baby was also something that I feel could be helpful to some.
I liked her writing, it is easy to read, it's conversational in style and accessible. There are some nuggets of greatness within the pages but unfortunately it's muddled. I've read reviews criticising Caitlin that say she isn't a feminist and whilst she does appear to not know the basic definition of feminism is 'equality of the sexes' and therefore men should have always been on her feminist radar I also think she provides an entry point into feminism for many people. It's similar to how the Spice Girls were criticised for being 'Feminism-lite' many years ago, if she's sewing the seeds of feminist ideas in people's minds and adding to conversations then that can only be a good thing and is also what I think she set out to achieve.
I spent a while trying to work out who the audience were that Caitlin was writing this book for and I think within the book promotion this has been misleading, I've seen a lot of discussions which argue that a man should have written this book and at first I felt the same way but the more that I read the more I thought it was actually aimed at Mothers of boys and when you took that to be the target audience the book made a lot more sense. It's a book which is meant to give Mothers an insight into what their boys may be encountering whilst growing up and there are times when it does this very well. Although I do not have children, I am the right age to be the target audience and whilst I had heard the names Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson prior to reading I had no knowledge of their opinions so in that sense the book does what it sets out to do, it writes about the influence of self-elected male role models such as Andrew Tate and topics such as the impact of pornography on body image and sexual ideals. What make less sense is that Caitlin herself is not a Mother of boys and within the book she seeks to solve the problems that adolescent boys may face by asking men who seem to all be 40+ and from a completely different generation who would have grown up in a totally different world.
My main issue with the book is that there were far too many sweeping generalisations and a lack of research, Caitlin admits at the beginning to knowing very little about being a man and it shows, she uses a narrow sample, picks topics and reduces men to basic stereotypes such as liking banter and football. Women are also not safe from sweeping generalisations and are described as being part of a massive sisterhood who want to pep-talk other women in toilets and share every detail of our lives. The book seems to be centred around the assumption that all men want to communicate in the same way that girls do despite there being no research that implies this to be the case. It appears that if Caitlin isn't aware of something existing she has just written as if it doesn't, she writes that there are no books about the experience of men growing up but Robert Webb's About a Boy, Russell Kane's Son of a Silverback and Jarvis Cocker's Good Pop, Bad Pop are a few that I've read in recent years.
Whilst I feel that I have been very critical there are some valid points that are made such as that not all men are the patriarchy/bad men, in reality it is a very small percentage of men and also the book recognises that the patriarchy often screws over men as hard as it does women. There is also a wonderful chapter where Caitlin interviews a family friend who has been affected in his teenage years by porn addiction which was touching and insightful and the chapter on Andrew Tate and Jordan Peterson was also interesting and informative and the section on helping new Fathers bond with their baby was also something that I feel could be helpful to some.
I liked her writing, it is easy to read, it's conversational in style and accessible. There are some nuggets of greatness within the pages but unfortunately it's muddled. I've read reviews criticising Caitlin that say she isn't a feminist and whilst she does appear to not know the basic definition of feminism is 'equality of the sexes' and therefore men should have always been on her feminist radar I also think she provides an entry point into feminism for many people. It's similar to how the Spice Girls were criticised for being 'Feminism-lite' many years ago, if she's sewing the seeds of feminist ideas in people's minds and adding to conversations then that can only be a good thing and is also what I think she set out to achieve.
July 29, 2024
I am so torn about what to say about this book because some parts were spectacular and others were kind of lame. Here’s the breakdown:
What I liked:
-Her takedowns of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate were absolutely hilarious but also very astute. She points out the hollowness of Tate’s life, and how Peterson’s order/chaos philosophy basically breaks down into man = good and woman = bad.
-I really liked her point that the reason women are less likely to be on board with casual sex is not because of an innate lower sex drive, but because there is a very real chance that going home with a stranger will end in violence.
-I liked the parts that explored what life is like for teen boys now and what messages they’re receiving about masculinity.
-Some of the jokes peppered throughout had me laughing out loud.
-The audiobook narration was lively and engaging.
What didn’t work for me:
-The rampant gender essentialism. Sometimes it felt a lot like listening to a nineties comedian: “Men are like this. Women are like that.” A lot of these examples also felt very specific to Gen X men and are not things I see reflected in millennials and Gen Z. For instance, it really wasn’t common for boys to get into physical fights at my elementary school, something she depicts as a normal part of boyhood. I found it particularly weird that she only interviewed men of one generation for the chapter on growing up male.
-I guess I’m just not really sure who this book is for. Is it meant to help women understand men or men understand women? What parts are journalism and what parts are comedy?
I’ve loved other works by Moran that I’ve read; I’m just not convinced that she was the right writer for this topic.
What I liked:
-Her takedowns of Jordan Peterson and Andrew Tate were absolutely hilarious but also very astute. She points out the hollowness of Tate’s life, and how Peterson’s order/chaos philosophy basically breaks down into man = good and woman = bad.
-I really liked her point that the reason women are less likely to be on board with casual sex is not because of an innate lower sex drive, but because there is a very real chance that going home with a stranger will end in violence.
-I liked the parts that explored what life is like for teen boys now and what messages they’re receiving about masculinity.
-Some of the jokes peppered throughout had me laughing out loud.
-The audiobook narration was lively and engaging.
What didn’t work for me:
-The rampant gender essentialism. Sometimes it felt a lot like listening to a nineties comedian: “Men are like this. Women are like that.” A lot of these examples also felt very specific to Gen X men and are not things I see reflected in millennials and Gen Z. For instance, it really wasn’t common for boys to get into physical fights at my elementary school, something she depicts as a normal part of boyhood. I found it particularly weird that she only interviewed men of one generation for the chapter on growing up male.
-I guess I’m just not really sure who this book is for. Is it meant to help women understand men or men understand women? What parts are journalism and what parts are comedy?
I’ve loved other works by Moran that I’ve read; I’m just not convinced that she was the right writer for this topic.
July 28, 2023
I admire her tackling the topic but the book's a bit crap.
July 11, 2023
I've enjoyed Caitlin Moran's other writing but this one was a big disappointment.
If you've read any of her other books then you are probably familiar with her style. I would sum it up as "Caitlin Moran writes about Caitlin Moran". Sometimes it's what Caitlin Moran does, sometimes it's about what Caitlin Moran thinks. But it's all by CM, about CM and probably for CM.
I'm a man, so her previous books, marketed as being about some aspect of the female experience, went in without triggering any of my critical faculties. They were funny, sometimes surprising, but ultimately about someone else's experience. And I was fine with that.
This one is marketed as being about something I know a bit more about. So, unfortunately, my critical faculties were triggered and MAN! (pun intended).
Now I know intimately why mansplaining is so annoying.
If this book were re-titled to something like "What Caitlin Moran thinks about some men she's met" I might be a little more forgiving. But, in the end, she's trying to pass it off as something between a critical assessment of the state of masculinity in the 2020's and an encouraging call for men to sort themselves out like women have.
(I think it's also quite telling that the ringing endorsements from two men on the advertising are from two men who she acknowledges have contributed to the book.)
If you've read any of her other books then you are probably familiar with her style. I would sum it up as "Caitlin Moran writes about Caitlin Moran". Sometimes it's what Caitlin Moran does, sometimes it's about what Caitlin Moran thinks. But it's all by CM, about CM and probably for CM.
I'm a man, so her previous books, marketed as being about some aspect of the female experience, went in without triggering any of my critical faculties. They were funny, sometimes surprising, but ultimately about someone else's experience. And I was fine with that.
This one is marketed as being about something I know a bit more about. So, unfortunately, my critical faculties were triggered and MAN! (pun intended).
Now I know intimately why mansplaining is so annoying.
If this book were re-titled to something like "What Caitlin Moran thinks about some men she's met" I might be a little more forgiving. But, in the end, she's trying to pass it off as something between a critical assessment of the state of masculinity in the 2020's and an encouraging call for men to sort themselves out like women have.
(I think it's also quite telling that the ringing endorsements from two men on the advertising are from two men who she acknowledges have contributed to the book.)
July 18, 2023
If you want to know about positive growth and attitudes surrounding men and masculinity, pick another book from one of the many better writers with more research and less toxic attitudes. Moran claims “Feminism is the only socio-political invention dedicated solely to help women.” which is a lie. Feminism is about equality and equality is also about making sure men are okay.
My husband has been trying to educate himself about toxic masculinity and feminism for a while. He read an article about this book and bought it. He had not been reading an hour before he was asking me confused questions about if something written in the book, is really how woman see them. After the fifth question that puzzled me I decided to read it myself. Full disclosure. I was never able to finished it.
I’m disappointed that it looks like she did minimal research and I think the book is quite damaging in it’s narrative of men as 2D characters. Women are painted as magically open beings but men are just closed of and unable to show emotions. It’s just not true. Talking to your male friends and asking the void that is Twitter, is hardly the best way to get any real idea about the modern man.
The book was going to get 2 stars until I realised she was putting toxic ideas from the manosphere into the book, without pointing out exactly how made up and damaging these ideas really are. The manosphere is hurting men and so are the stereotypes Moran believes men are. This book is absolutely not worth the read and feels like a waste of money.
My husband has been trying to educate himself about toxic masculinity and feminism for a while. He read an article about this book and bought it. He had not been reading an hour before he was asking me confused questions about if something written in the book, is really how woman see them. After the fifth question that puzzled me I decided to read it myself. Full disclosure. I was never able to finished it.
I’m disappointed that it looks like she did minimal research and I think the book is quite damaging in it’s narrative of men as 2D characters. Women are painted as magically open beings but men are just closed of and unable to show emotions. It’s just not true. Talking to your male friends and asking the void that is Twitter, is hardly the best way to get any real idea about the modern man.
The book was going to get 2 stars until I realised she was putting toxic ideas from the manosphere into the book, without pointing out exactly how made up and damaging these ideas really are. The manosphere is hurting men and so are the stereotypes Moran believes men are. This book is absolutely not worth the read and feels like a waste of money.
July 9, 2023
This book hit home to me at so many points. For those who think it's going to be a book, written by a feminist, telling men how to behave, think again.
It's not about slating men. It's about making men realise it's ok to be emotional, to talk about feelings, to show a softer side. It's about teaching boys and men that the likes of Andrew Tate aren't role models.
It's the book I wished my father, my uncles, my teachers, my classmates in primary and secondary school had read. It's the book that's helping me to be an even better parent to my two sons. It's the book that made me realise I need to talk to my male friends about feelings and I need to keep having open and honest conversations with my sons.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you Caitlin Moran. You are a wonderful human being.
It's not about slating men. It's about making men realise it's ok to be emotional, to talk about feelings, to show a softer side. It's about teaching boys and men that the likes of Andrew Tate aren't role models.
It's the book I wished my father, my uncles, my teachers, my classmates in primary and secondary school had read. It's the book that's helping me to be an even better parent to my two sons. It's the book that made me realise I need to talk to my male friends about feelings and I need to keep having open and honest conversations with my sons.
⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐
Thank you Caitlin Moran. You are a wonderful human being.
July 19, 2023
Caitlin Moran is sweary, scarily graphic, and beautifully insightful. As a repressed middle aged man I found the stuff on sex a bit (okay, a lot) too much but the stuff about gender roles, men's friendships (or lack thereof) and how men communicate were painfully spot on. Her takedowns of Jordan Peterson, Andrew Tate and the pick up artist are masterful.
You may not like everything here but it's good food for thought.
You may not like everything here but it's good food for thought.
July 16, 2023
I have long been a Caitlin Moran fan but I went three stars, sometimes it felt like two other times four so I plumped for the middle. I think for anyone thinking of reading this two things CM says at the end of the chapter are worth bearing in mind “…but I am aware that, as with any book, this is no way a complete map.” “Of course, I have not sorted anything out at all. All I’ve really done is try to write a book that provides a starting point for, I hope, a lot of conversations, by, I hope a lot of men.”
There’s a lot of generalisation in the book. Often things she said resembled no man I know but other times rang very true. If you are a mum with young children in your life the chapter on pornography is hideously eye opening even when you’re already somewhat aware of what’s out there and worth a read if nothing else.
There’s a lot of generalisation in the book. Often things she said resembled no man I know but other times rang very true. If you are a mum with young children in your life the chapter on pornography is hideously eye opening even when you’re already somewhat aware of what’s out there and worth a read if nothing else.
September 13, 2023
really enjoyed this book talking about men. some of the subjects mentioned are a problem with men in the modern world but Moran writes in funny frank open style though.
July 27, 2023
Listened to this quickly. I really like Caitlin’s style but this made me sad and angry.
Some interesting stuff in there, I know very little about Andrew Tate et all but what I now know is that it’s scary stuff.
Sadly overall this book was full of sweeping generalisations and stereotypes. Of men and women.
The men and women from Caitlin’s echo chamber.
According to Caitlin women have it all sorted now, don’t need to be scared of what people will think of them because they’re surrounded by others cheering them on. While men are worried someone will call them ‘gay’. Really?
Legions of women all sharing stories and offering support to each other while the poor lonely men have no one to talk to. Really?
And did she need to add the quips about things like poor men not having the excuse of PMS etc for their bad mood? Oh lucky menstruaters with their ‘excuses’!
A disappointing missed opportunity.
Some interesting stuff in there, I know very little about Andrew Tate et all but what I now know is that it’s scary stuff.
Sadly overall this book was full of sweeping generalisations and stereotypes. Of men and women.
The men and women from Caitlin’s echo chamber.
According to Caitlin women have it all sorted now, don’t need to be scared of what people will think of them because they’re surrounded by others cheering them on. While men are worried someone will call them ‘gay’. Really?
Legions of women all sharing stories and offering support to each other while the poor lonely men have no one to talk to. Really?
And did she need to add the quips about things like poor men not having the excuse of PMS etc for their bad mood? Oh lucky menstruaters with their ‘excuses’!
A disappointing missed opportunity.
August 18, 2023
This is hugely disappointing and an opportunity missed. The best parts are probably the chapter headings because the actual content in these chapters are how she sees her self a hero on all the men she has had confess in her as if she is their saviours. She is brash and derogatory about men all the way through. Her event on the book far exceeds the book itself.
July 17, 2023
I love this book. This will be a book I revisit again and again I am sure. As a Mum of 2 boys I found this really interesting and thought provoking. What’s even more interesting is that my sons, 14 and 17 were over my shoulder reading snippets and were really interested in the contents. It sparked a very interesting conversation about algorithms and turns out the TikTok for you feed of a 40 something woman differs greatly from that of a teenage boy! I recommend this to everyone, but particularly anyone with a son or sons.
July 23, 2023
Picked this one up hoping it would be a departure from her talking about periods and wanking continually. I was sadly mistaken..
August 9, 2023
2.5 stars, I can’t really decide whether to round up or down
This one is a bit heartbreaking to rate or review, because I do love Caitlin Moran and her writings normally, as I’ve stated in other reviews, but this one’s just too much of a miss for me.
I collected a few thoughts about some aspects that did not sit quite right with me. They are in no particular order, quite rambly because I am sleep-deprived and unedited because I don’t even know how I found the time to type them down in the first place. This is mostly for me to remember in case I revisit or discuss the book:
The first disappointment, for me, was her definition of feminism as “a movement for women, women only, this is a women’s club, we celebrate WOMEN and want them to become CEOs” (not a direct quote, I’m paraphrasing). To me, feminism is a movement with the goal to abolish the patriarchy with its rigid gender roles and institutions that see women as reproductive machines and men as cannon fodder in wartimes. Thus, I assumed the “Moran Rule” that “the patriarchy screws over men just as it screws over women” is feminist consensus and not a new revelation. In my world, for example, we are fighting for couples to be able to share care responsibilities for children not only so that the mothers can be girl bosses and climb corporate ladders, but also so that the dads can build relationships with their children, enjoy the time and be present with them, and, crucially, also for the children, who will benefit from having more primary caretakers and do automatically have less rigid gender roles modelled in their homes.
Reducing feminism to girl-boss feminism neglects that there is a lot more to life than the things men have it easier with in our society than women and that the human experience should not be reduced to how easy you can get a promotion at work.
The second thing that disappointed me is how shallow the research for this book has been. I know that Moran’s other books are not extensively researched either, but her forte is when she writes about her own experiences in her signature humorous style and generalises just enough that you might find something about yourself or your friends/family/… in there. But this time, she does write about a topic very alien to her (to her credit, she admits that). Neither is she a man nor does she have a son, and so she relies heavily on discussions she had about boy- and manhood in her “self-selected echo chamber” of middle-aged, middle class, English journalists and writers. Relying on a few reports from a privileged and liberal bubble makes a real discussion about manhood in society almost impossible - for example, in my friend group almost all fathers take half of the available parental leave (with their partner taking the other half) and are more than happy to share half of the parenting duties including nappy changes, running errands, doctors’ visits, gift buying, supporting their partners in recovery, play dates and talking to other dads about joys and challenges of fatherhood. Their partners are able to continue pursuing their careers and hobbies and their children benefit from very present dads who are building strong relationships with them. Just from my little bubble I could conclude that parenting is now a shared and equal job and that feminism has reached everything in that regard, but looking at official statistics, just over 30% of German fathers take any parental leave at all (and that’s most likely to be just two months because they are paid for by the German government if and only if they take them). Similarly, a lot of my male friends are very able to have deep conversations with each other and also look out for one another - they do notice when the others are having a tough time. Some of them are going to or went to therapy, but even those who do not are very literate about their feelings and moods. I know that this is not necessarily the default case for guys and that my friends are not only privileged, but also fortunate, as statistics look a lot bleaker for most men.
In contrast, when I was a teenager I was part of a friend group that emphasised “traditional manhood” a lot. The boys were always policing each other to behave as “manly” as possible and though they also did this for fun, there was a very serious core to it, as became evident every time someone was accused of not being manly enough.
I guess what I’m trying to say is - you might get very different ideas about modern manhood depending on your social circle, therefore a more varied look, some more statistics including different age groups and social backgrounds would have been very enlightening, especially concerning a topic that might be very dependent on generation.
Third, as someone who is surrounded by quite a lot of men - in the workplace (I am a mathematician) and also about 50% of my friends are male - I am very allergic to people describing men as “simple”. Men are just as complicated, messy, simply *human* as women are. They can have their share of drama, backstabbing and disloyalty just as the next female peer group, they like to gossip and can be very judgemental - sometimes it just shows a little bit different than in female groups, but I credit that to socialisation. Because - newsflash - men are humans. There is so much more that unites us than divides us in all aspects of our being.
Fourth - she overestimates the achievements of feminism. Yes, we have come a long way, we already achieved a lot and every advancement of society must be celebrated, but it’s been nowhere near as successful as Moran makes it sound. First, because of my definition of feminism (see above) I am convinced that feminism will only have been successful when *all* genders have been liberated. Second, a lot of her points are subjective (all the best songs belong to feminists etc) and are in no way a useful measure to judge the advancements of feminism. Third, there has been a lot of backlash to some of the core achievements of feminism in recent years, see e.g. the rollback of reproductive rights in the US. A woman needing an abortion in Texas will not really be helped by Beyoncé singing “who run the world? Girls!” or the assurance that there might be a woman flying to the moon! Maybe. Some day. But Moran does not acknowledge this backlash, instead she is only very celebratory.
Fifth - “we do not celebrate men”. I do not know, where Moran gets her news from, but men are celebrated left, right and center. They are just not celebrated for *being* a man, but “only” for their success, while successful women are mostly celebrated for “being successful while also female!”. But each year, most Nobel Prize Winners are still men. Most literary prize winners are men. Most heads of state, ministers, astronauts, successful athletes, researchers, professors, smurfs and directors are men. Male athletes are paid more than their female counterparts even if they are less successful, the biggest and best paid movie star is a man, even Jay-Z net worth is four times that of his wife. We do not *need* to emphasise that they are men, because that’s considered to be the default. I’m sorry, but saying there are not enough good heroes for little boys is bullshit.
Sixth - just the question “What does the world gain every time a little boy is born”. As a human being, but especially as the mum of the cutest 10 month old baby boy I am very angry that this question is asked in that way. But as it made it into the book, I can answer it straight away! The world gains the same as every time a little girl or any baby is born, independent of genitals: the promise of a future. A person who will most likely live an average life, who will make friends and mistakes, who will love and be loved, who will hopefully try to make the world better, maybe in small ways and maybe in big ones. But most importantly, the world gains another human being whose worth is not determined by anything they will do or be, but just by being. Hope that helps!
By the way, I am quite sure (because I asked some of them) that my male friends are not “ashamed” to be men, not even the ones who would describe themselves as feminists. Maybe they define “being a man” differently than there fathers would have, but all of them are successful, thriving humans who do not need to hide and who want to live life to the fullest, which for them includes spending quality time with loved ones and sort out any problems they might have.
There are some good points made in this book and some interesting topics are raised. The chapter about “Sam” and his problems with pornography, the chapters about pick-up artists and the manosphere were interesting and all written with quite a lot of empathy for the boys and men who are seduced by mysoginistic movements pretending to have all the answers to their identity crisis. There are also interesting perspectives in some of the other chapters! I liked her empathetic look on the midlife crisis, for example. There are still enough good things about this book for me to rate it above two stars.
Of course, it has its funny moments (though not as many as I would have liked to see). The best bits are, as usual, when she writes about women, or parenting. I think trying to be as funny as possible while writing about things alien to her made the writing sound more detached, and reductive. It’s easier for her to make jokes about problems concerning women than problems concerning men without acknowledging their complexity.
Her main objective was to spark discussion, and if I was less sleep-deprived, I would probably like very much to argue now. Maybe I’ll give it to my boyfriend and see what he thinks - we might discuss it when the kid is old enough to give his two cents, too :)
I will very probably still read her next book, but I do hope she writes about women again.
This one is a bit heartbreaking to rate or review, because I do love Caitlin Moran and her writings normally, as I’ve stated in other reviews, but this one’s just too much of a miss for me.
I collected a few thoughts about some aspects that did not sit quite right with me. They are in no particular order, quite rambly because I am sleep-deprived and unedited because I don’t even know how I found the time to type them down in the first place. This is mostly for me to remember in case I revisit or discuss the book:
The first disappointment, for me, was her definition of feminism as “a movement for women, women only, this is a women’s club, we celebrate WOMEN and want them to become CEOs” (not a direct quote, I’m paraphrasing). To me, feminism is a movement with the goal to abolish the patriarchy with its rigid gender roles and institutions that see women as reproductive machines and men as cannon fodder in wartimes. Thus, I assumed the “Moran Rule” that “the patriarchy screws over men just as it screws over women” is feminist consensus and not a new revelation. In my world, for example, we are fighting for couples to be able to share care responsibilities for children not only so that the mothers can be girl bosses and climb corporate ladders, but also so that the dads can build relationships with their children, enjoy the time and be present with them, and, crucially, also for the children, who will benefit from having more primary caretakers and do automatically have less rigid gender roles modelled in their homes.
Reducing feminism to girl-boss feminism neglects that there is a lot more to life than the things men have it easier with in our society than women and that the human experience should not be reduced to how easy you can get a promotion at work.
The second thing that disappointed me is how shallow the research for this book has been. I know that Moran’s other books are not extensively researched either, but her forte is when she writes about her own experiences in her signature humorous style and generalises just enough that you might find something about yourself or your friends/family/… in there. But this time, she does write about a topic very alien to her (to her credit, she admits that). Neither is she a man nor does she have a son, and so she relies heavily on discussions she had about boy- and manhood in her “self-selected echo chamber” of middle-aged, middle class, English journalists and writers. Relying on a few reports from a privileged and liberal bubble makes a real discussion about manhood in society almost impossible - for example, in my friend group almost all fathers take half of the available parental leave (with their partner taking the other half) and are more than happy to share half of the parenting duties including nappy changes, running errands, doctors’ visits, gift buying, supporting their partners in recovery, play dates and talking to other dads about joys and challenges of fatherhood. Their partners are able to continue pursuing their careers and hobbies and their children benefit from very present dads who are building strong relationships with them. Just from my little bubble I could conclude that parenting is now a shared and equal job and that feminism has reached everything in that regard, but looking at official statistics, just over 30% of German fathers take any parental leave at all (and that’s most likely to be just two months because they are paid for by the German government if and only if they take them). Similarly, a lot of my male friends are very able to have deep conversations with each other and also look out for one another - they do notice when the others are having a tough time. Some of them are going to or went to therapy, but even those who do not are very literate about their feelings and moods. I know that this is not necessarily the default case for guys and that my friends are not only privileged, but also fortunate, as statistics look a lot bleaker for most men.
In contrast, when I was a teenager I was part of a friend group that emphasised “traditional manhood” a lot. The boys were always policing each other to behave as “manly” as possible and though they also did this for fun, there was a very serious core to it, as became evident every time someone was accused of not being manly enough.
I guess what I’m trying to say is - you might get very different ideas about modern manhood depending on your social circle, therefore a more varied look, some more statistics including different age groups and social backgrounds would have been very enlightening, especially concerning a topic that might be very dependent on generation.
Third, as someone who is surrounded by quite a lot of men - in the workplace (I am a mathematician) and also about 50% of my friends are male - I am very allergic to people describing men as “simple”. Men are just as complicated, messy, simply *human* as women are. They can have their share of drama, backstabbing and disloyalty just as the next female peer group, they like to gossip and can be very judgemental - sometimes it just shows a little bit different than in female groups, but I credit that to socialisation. Because - newsflash - men are humans. There is so much more that unites us than divides us in all aspects of our being.
Fourth - she overestimates the achievements of feminism. Yes, we have come a long way, we already achieved a lot and every advancement of society must be celebrated, but it’s been nowhere near as successful as Moran makes it sound. First, because of my definition of feminism (see above) I am convinced that feminism will only have been successful when *all* genders have been liberated. Second, a lot of her points are subjective (all the best songs belong to feminists etc) and are in no way a useful measure to judge the advancements of feminism. Third, there has been a lot of backlash to some of the core achievements of feminism in recent years, see e.g. the rollback of reproductive rights in the US. A woman needing an abortion in Texas will not really be helped by Beyoncé singing “who run the world? Girls!” or the assurance that there might be a woman flying to the moon! Maybe. Some day. But Moran does not acknowledge this backlash, instead she is only very celebratory.
Fifth - “we do not celebrate men”. I do not know, where Moran gets her news from, but men are celebrated left, right and center. They are just not celebrated for *being* a man, but “only” for their success, while successful women are mostly celebrated for “being successful while also female!”. But each year, most Nobel Prize Winners are still men. Most literary prize winners are men. Most heads of state, ministers, astronauts, successful athletes, researchers, professors, smurfs and directors are men. Male athletes are paid more than their female counterparts even if they are less successful, the biggest and best paid movie star is a man, even Jay-Z net worth is four times that of his wife. We do not *need* to emphasise that they are men, because that’s considered to be the default. I’m sorry, but saying there are not enough good heroes for little boys is bullshit.
Sixth - just the question “What does the world gain every time a little boy is born”. As a human being, but especially as the mum of the cutest 10 month old baby boy I am very angry that this question is asked in that way. But as it made it into the book, I can answer it straight away! The world gains the same as every time a little girl or any baby is born, independent of genitals: the promise of a future. A person who will most likely live an average life, who will make friends and mistakes, who will love and be loved, who will hopefully try to make the world better, maybe in small ways and maybe in big ones. But most importantly, the world gains another human being whose worth is not determined by anything they will do or be, but just by being. Hope that helps!
By the way, I am quite sure (because I asked some of them) that my male friends are not “ashamed” to be men, not even the ones who would describe themselves as feminists. Maybe they define “being a man” differently than there fathers would have, but all of them are successful, thriving humans who do not need to hide and who want to live life to the fullest, which for them includes spending quality time with loved ones and sort out any problems they might have.
There are some good points made in this book and some interesting topics are raised. The chapter about “Sam” and his problems with pornography, the chapters about pick-up artists and the manosphere were interesting and all written with quite a lot of empathy for the boys and men who are seduced by mysoginistic movements pretending to have all the answers to their identity crisis. There are also interesting perspectives in some of the other chapters! I liked her empathetic look on the midlife crisis, for example. There are still enough good things about this book for me to rate it above two stars.
Of course, it has its funny moments (though not as many as I would have liked to see). The best bits are, as usual, when she writes about women, or parenting. I think trying to be as funny as possible while writing about things alien to her made the writing sound more detached, and reductive. It’s easier for her to make jokes about problems concerning women than problems concerning men without acknowledging their complexity.
Her main objective was to spark discussion, and if I was less sleep-deprived, I would probably like very much to argue now. Maybe I’ll give it to my boyfriend and see what he thinks - we might discuss it when the kid is old enough to give his two cents, too :)
I will very probably still read her next book, but I do hope she writes about women again.
January 6, 2024
"Young, single, horny women, the ones presumably you are looking for when you are a young, single, horny man, are never going to be honest to you about everything they think about sex because they want to have sex with you and so they don't want to look weird or scare you or make you so sad your erection dies. They're going to say what they think you want to hear. They're going to say the lines they've heard countless cool girls on Love Island or in clubs or in movies say. They're only going to tell a horny truth that there's a horny buyer for."
"When it comes to pornography, women have watched so much of it all shot from the man's point of view that often, when we're fucking, we're pretending we're you because that's the view we're used to, that's the majority of sex that we've seen. We're imagining how amazing our asses must look while you fuck us from behind; how pleasing it must be to just collapse into us. We can't see any of it of course, but we're imagining how amazing it must look to you...So next time you're fucking a woman, ask her if that's what she's doing because any reply is going to be interesting." I should ask more questions for which any reply is interesting lol.
"When it comes to pornography, women have watched so much of it all shot from the man's point of view that often, when we're fucking, we're pretending we're you because that's the view we're used to, that's the majority of sex that we've seen. We're imagining how amazing our asses must look while you fuck us from behind; how pleasing it must be to just collapse into us. We can't see any of it of course, but we're imagining how amazing it must look to you...So next time you're fucking a woman, ask her if that's what she's doing because any reply is going to be interesting." I should ask more questions for which any reply is interesting lol.
July 8, 2023
DNF @ page 55 because ma'am seriously just described Mark Hamill as Luke Skywalker as having an "average body".
July 19, 2023
Skip the first third - yes 'bantz' is very annoying and never, I think, defined? - and What About Men? gets really good; from about Chapter 6 or 7 onwards.
Some of it is hard going, necessarily the chapters on pornography, pick-up artists, and the manosphere especially. But much of the book is really quite lovely, if bittersweet. Moran writes very touchingly and perceptively about the friendships of men (why don't they have them!?), fatherhood, aging (she convincingly defends, or at least explains, the midlife crisis), and how Jordan B Peterson seems sad.
Yes, she often comes across as a little out-of-touch. She automatically assumes a binary of MEN vs WOMEN. She's up front about this being a book about Straight White Men (no cis, apparently, she's old school), so this almost feels fair enough? But to Moran the opposite of 'Man' is 'Woman'. No other genders need apply.
Similarly, the book is very compulsorily sexual; Moran apparently loves sex and assumes everyone else does too, which can make for a tough read at points.
Her funniest gaff is probably talking about drag queens and asking 'where are all the drag kings?' Um, maybe do a quick google search?
But I think Moran intends the book to be read by straight (White) cis men and women, and they are really going to be dealing with a lot already as they work their way through it; so perhaps overlooking a few other viewpoints can be forgiven (the readers' kids at least will know about nonbinary and asexual people). And the thing is, she's really onto something here. Why are men so miserable? She brings up several reasons worth us talking about: loneliness, guilt, compulsory stoicism, always being society's villain and butt-of-the-joke, and the fact that patriarchy kills men just like it does women.
And the best thing about the book is that Moran actually likes men, and it shows. She writes about them with affection and empathy and not a little worry. Frankly I find men to be bewildering, unpredictable, and often a bit scary, but I do have many that I am very fond of. And I do want them to have richer, less lonely inner lives
Laurie Penny's Sexual Revolution made me want to go and rebuild society; What About Men did not. But I suspect this milder middle-of-the-road book will have more of an impact on the milder middle-of-the-road readers. Which is a lot of them!
Some of it is hard going, necessarily the chapters on pornography, pick-up artists, and the manosphere especially. But much of the book is really quite lovely, if bittersweet. Moran writes very touchingly and perceptively about the friendships of men (why don't they have them!?), fatherhood, aging (she convincingly defends, or at least explains, the midlife crisis), and how Jordan B Peterson seems sad.
Yes, she often comes across as a little out-of-touch. She automatically assumes a binary of MEN vs WOMEN. She's up front about this being a book about Straight White Men (no cis, apparently, she's old school), so this almost feels fair enough? But to Moran the opposite of 'Man' is 'Woman'. No other genders need apply.
Similarly, the book is very compulsorily sexual; Moran apparently loves sex and assumes everyone else does too, which can make for a tough read at points.
Her funniest gaff is probably talking about drag queens and asking 'where are all the drag kings?' Um, maybe do a quick google search?
But I think Moran intends the book to be read by straight (White) cis men and women, and they are really going to be dealing with a lot already as they work their way through it; so perhaps overlooking a few other viewpoints can be forgiven (the readers' kids at least will know about nonbinary and asexual people). And the thing is, she's really onto something here. Why are men so miserable? She brings up several reasons worth us talking about: loneliness, guilt, compulsory stoicism, always being society's villain and butt-of-the-joke, and the fact that patriarchy kills men just like it does women.
And the best thing about the book is that Moran actually likes men, and it shows. She writes about them with affection and empathy and not a little worry. Frankly I find men to be bewildering, unpredictable, and often a bit scary, but I do have many that I am very fond of. And I do want them to have richer, less lonely inner lives
Laurie Penny's Sexual Revolution made me want to go and rebuild society; What About Men did not. But I suspect this milder middle-of-the-road book will have more of an impact on the milder middle-of-the-road readers. Which is a lot of them!
July 14, 2023
One for Moran fans
If you enjoy Caitlin Moran’s writing generally then you will like this. If you are looking for some deeply researched academic work on the subject of men then you are going to need to look elsewhere. It’s a friendly, funny book with a few clever insights here and there.
If you enjoy Caitlin Moran’s writing generally then you will like this. If you are looking for some deeply researched academic work on the subject of men then you are going to need to look elsewhere. It’s a friendly, funny book with a few clever insights here and there.
July 14, 2023
This book should be compulsory reading for all parents, teenagers, aunts, uncles, grandparents…. Basically anyone who has any relationship with a boy/man. I found it fascinating. I want to read it again now. Really looking forward to discussing it at Book Club.
July 25, 2023
I found this a positive, uplifting read that might well be the start of a more honest journey into self awareness and discovering what it is to be a bloke. Also hope it helps a close relative going through tough times with her teenaged son.
December 10, 2023
Caitlin shares her thoughtful and provocative new book, What About Men?: A Feminist Answers the Question, giving us insights into modern masculinity. The discussion delves into how young men often feel overlooked and the impact of influencers who promote outdated, misogynistic views. Ultimately, Caitlin emphasizes the need for more positive, progressive conversations about masculinity. What About Men is an invitation to reevaluate traditional notions of masculinity in the 21st century. Moran skillfully balances serious discussions with humor, making it an engaging and thought-provoking read for anyone interested in understanding gender dynamics and paving the way for a more inclusive future.
As the author says, "We live in a world where there isn't really any problem or anything that can happen to a woman that there isn't a blog about or a Beyoncé song about or a book about, but I feel like we haven't got those resources for our men. If my teenage daughter has a problem, I can point her towards a million things. When my teenage son has a problem, I don't know where to turn." I loved Moran's thoughtful insight into the well-being of men. She uses humor and compassion to navigate touchy subjects, from mental health to the impact of online radicalization. As the mother of a teen boy, it was helpful to have hands-on advice for approaching these conversations and a fresh perspective to unraveling the intricacies of male experiences. Moran's book is a more reasonable, more liberal, and progressive approach to talking to boys about the positive side of masculinity. What About Men is a refreshing take on masculinity—ideal for those interested in gender dynamics and feminism and fans of Caitlin Moran's work.
To listen to my interview with the author, go to my podcast at: https://www.momsdonthavetimetoreadboo...
As the author says, "We live in a world where there isn't really any problem or anything that can happen to a woman that there isn't a blog about or a Beyoncé song about or a book about, but I feel like we haven't got those resources for our men. If my teenage daughter has a problem, I can point her towards a million things. When my teenage son has a problem, I don't know where to turn." I loved Moran's thoughtful insight into the well-being of men. She uses humor and compassion to navigate touchy subjects, from mental health to the impact of online radicalization. As the mother of a teen boy, it was helpful to have hands-on advice for approaching these conversations and a fresh perspective to unraveling the intricacies of male experiences. Moran's book is a more reasonable, more liberal, and progressive approach to talking to boys about the positive side of masculinity. What About Men is a refreshing take on masculinity—ideal for those interested in gender dynamics and feminism and fans of Caitlin Moran's work.
To listen to my interview with the author, go to my podcast at: https://www.momsdonthavetimetoreadboo...
June 7, 2024
4.5
Chapters The Sex of Men, The Pornography of Men and The Friendships of Men were my favourite! In fact, the whole second half absolutely hit all the nails on the head and compelled me.
Her writing style is unmistakable. I’ve always loved her no nonsense, and unpretentious style. She writes exactly how she talks; having had the pleasure of going to two In Conversations one with Jess Philips and very recently a hometown Wolverhampton one with Robin Ince.
The unscientific fact of 90 per cent of men just trying to do their part while the 10 per cent which are most talked about negatively, ultimately, letting the side down is something I agree with it. It also made me remember that I’m a feminist AND (no buts here!) men are ace! When removing the ones that have left me feeling furious, frustrated and left me with trauma from the equation I’ve known some bloody good ones.
Chapters The Sex of Men, The Pornography of Men and The Friendships of Men were my favourite! In fact, the whole second half absolutely hit all the nails on the head and compelled me.
Her writing style is unmistakable. I’ve always loved her no nonsense, and unpretentious style. She writes exactly how she talks; having had the pleasure of going to two In Conversations one with Jess Philips and very recently a hometown Wolverhampton one with Robin Ince.
The unscientific fact of 90 per cent of men just trying to do their part while the 10 per cent which are most talked about negatively, ultimately, letting the side down is something I agree with it. It also made me remember that I’m a feminist AND (no buts here!) men are ace! When removing the ones that have left me feeling furious, frustrated and left me with trauma from the equation I’ve known some bloody good ones.
January 31, 2024
Sonaba prometedor, pero se quedó en lo circunstancial.
La autora no profundiza en el debate y solo se centra en mostrar una serie de testimonios de unos cuantos hombres y dar su opinión sin fundamento, sobre cuestiones que más o menos sabemos que le suceden a los hombres por ser hombres en esta sociedad occidental.
Lo rescatable: Refuerza el mensaje de que los hombres no son el enemigo, porque a ratos se nos olvida...
La autora no profundiza en el debate y solo se centra en mostrar una serie de testimonios de unos cuantos hombres y dar su opinión sin fundamento, sobre cuestiones que más o menos sabemos que le suceden a los hombres por ser hombres en esta sociedad occidental.
Lo rescatable: Refuerza el mensaje de que los hombres no son el enemigo, porque a ratos se nos olvida...
September 9, 2023
At times it was bang on the money....at other times it was just the author and her mates opinions and numerous stories about her personal life. It was OK overall. I read How to be a woman many years ago so thought I might as well read this too.
July 18, 2023
I absolutely love Caitlin Moran’s way with words, and she puts it to excellent use in her latest tome. It’s quite telling that, having turned her attention away from her usual chatty feminist topics to the subject of men and how toxic masculinity damages them just as much as it does women, she seems to have attracted a concerted backlash from certain corners of the internet. Which kind of proves her point. Eminently readable.
January 16, 2024
Very easy to read, but difficult to remember. Moran writes with humour and genuine affection. A simpler picture than reality is presented in the pursuit of a tight, punchy piece which ultimately leaves much to be desired. Men and masculinity have always been in so-called crisis - realising as much is not an astonishing insight.
January 13, 2024
I had to be paid £10 to read this book
July 12, 2024
I am so sad to rate a book by Caitlin Moran so low. Her books have always been my permanent joy, giggle and delight. In this book though she writes in such outrages generalisations that it fails even to amuse. Fair enough, the author points out in the beginning that she writes speciffically about white straight men. And if it was a case I would just happily had fun reading it. In truth she uses her circle of friends and acquaintances as well as her Twitter followers (hence one big bubble of Caitlin Moran again) as the default "white straight men". At some point this book turns into a parade of stereotypes and jokes. She tells her readers that militarisation is not longer a case nowadays when Europe increases its military budget and the brutal war is raging in the heart of European continent. (She touches upon this subject briefly in men conversation in gym illustrating the point how awkward men are in discussing some topics which is weird to me because men I know talk politics all the time.)
Anyway she made some good points though and cracks some funny jokes, so it wasn't a complete waste of time by any means but the disappointment it was.
Anyway she made some good points though and cracks some funny jokes, so it wasn't a complete waste of time by any means but the disappointment it was.
June 4, 2024
I know there have been people quite disappointed with this book but Caitlin is always an easy high star rating for me. Her books fly by because I feel I am chatting with a girlfriend, I always have out loud laughs and giggles, which I find a rarity, and I always sense a lot of heart in what she says. I never feel like time with her is time wasted and I will devour all her future books with cheeky zeal! I have lived most of my life a “man hater”. Always proclaiming to the women around me I have “man” issues. But I ended up finding and marrying the very best one. And now I am raising two boys. I need to unpack a lot here. I need to stop letting the 10% represent all men everywhere. So for me, this book was helpful and valued. Hope I can hold on to it, but will be happy to read it again and again, hence the 5 stars.
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