That's the point of clan omni-mechs. You can just slap in weapons to suit the mission requirements. Non-omni mechs tend to be designed for much more specific roles and to be used in specific ways.

Originally posted by Alpha2518:

That's the point of clan omni-mechs. You can just slap in weapons to suit the mission requirements.

That doesn't mean that's how it'll work in this specific game though. MW4 and MWO omnis still have hardpoints. They're treated differently to the hardpoints on battlemechs but they're still a thing. They're not like Battletech omnis where you can put anything that fits in a pod anywhere you want as long as you have the tonnage/crits for it.
How will omnis work in this game? We don't know yet. They might satisfy OP but they might not. We don't know.

The "extremely restrictive" hardpoints of Mechwarrior 5 are closer to the lore and the tabletop and are far easier to balance. Expect them to be carried forward into future games. MWO's system is made-up, from a lore standpoint, and encouraged boating. See Battletech Strategic Operations > Page 188. There is no such thing as sizeless hardpoints because it can't be justified in-universe. It isn't "hard" if it can magically stretch. The mounting, ammo feed-way clearance, and power conduits to run a machine gun are very different in size than those for an AC/20. The technician must replace or rebuild the entire corresponding location of the mech to up-size a gun. The opposite, big gun to small gun, is allowed because the technician can add adapters/spacers to the mounting, fit a smaller feed-way in an over-sized space, and use connector adapters and transformers for the power conduits.

The devs stated, according to hearsay, that weapon hardpoint sizes were introduced to make the variants more distinct. The player is not supposed to have so much freedom that they can turn one variant into another. The market would be less critical if that were true.

Mechwarrior 5 mechlab allows a selection of refit classes from TT and is limited by what UE4 can model with reasonable effort. It mostly permits Class A and Class D refits, except changing of locations. If locations (side torsos, arms) could be swapped, they would be limited by what is already modeled in the game. This would be a good addition, in my opinion, and would allow some control over hardpoints. See my idea here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_tf1YXNqAWvsocUPNp0otMC_pTSf0OPkL2OUeBSyxGI/edit?usp=sharing

Originally posted by Starker:

The "extremely restrictive" hardpoints of Mechwarrior 5 are closer to the lore and the tabletop and are far easier to balance. Expect them to be carried forward into future games. MWO's system is made-up, from a lore standpoint, and encouraged boating. See Battletech Strategic Operations > Page 188. There is no such thing as sizeless hardpoints because it can't be justified in-universe. It isn't "hard" if it can magically stretch. The mounting, ammo feed-way clearance, and power conduits to run a machine gun are very different in size than those for an AC/20. The technician must replace or rebuild the entire corresponding location of the mech to up-size a gun. The opposite, big gun to small gun, is allowed because the technician can add adapters/spacers to the mounting, fit a smaller feed-way in an over-sized space, and use connector adapters and transformers for the power conduits.

The devs stated, according to hearsay, that weapon hardpoint sizes were introduced to make the variants more distinct. The player is not supposed to have so much freedom that they can turn one variant into another. The market would be less critical if that were true.

Mechwarrior 5 mechlab allows a selection of refit classes from TT and is limited by what UE4 can model with reasonable effort. It mostly permits Class A and Class D refits, except changing of locations. If locations (side torsos, arms) could be swapped, they would be limited by what is already modeled in the game. This would be a good addition, in my opinion, and would allow some control over hardpoints. See my idea here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_tf1YXNqAWvsocUPNp0otMC_pTSf0OPkL2OUeBSyxGI/edit?usp=sharing

The devs approach to making variants distinct is lame compared to the MWO quirk system. It's far more interesting to see a manufacturers touch having an influence on the way a weapon fires (as an example) than it is to tediously have to get an exact variant to equip just the precise build you want in that given moment.

Especially as we are dealing with omnimechs now.

Originally posted by King Fossil:

MW4 and MWO omnis still have hardpoints. They're treated differently to the hardpoints on battlemechs but they're still a thing.

IIRC, hardpoints on MW4 Omnis were exactly the same as on non-Omni mechs in that game. Can't speak for MWO, couldn't stand its horrible deadzone for torso aiming. Some kind of hardpoint system is inevitable because the weapons need to appear on the 3D model (unlike in MW2 and MW3), but I hope there are no restrictions when it comes to size or weapon type, at least. Clan Omnis should be quick and easy to reconfigure, for every mission if you want.

Originally posted by King Fossil:

Originally posted by Alpha2518:

That's the point of clan omni-mechs. You can just slap in weapons to suit the mission requirements.

That doesn't mean that's how it'll work in this specific game though. MW4 and MWO omnis still have hardpoints. They're treated differently to the hardpoints on battlemechs but they're still a thing. They're not like Battletech omnis where you can put anything that fits in a pod anywhere you want as long as you have the tonnage/crits for it.
How will omnis work in this game? We don't know yet. They might satisfy OP but they might not. We don't know.

You're forgetting one thing, not all Clan omnipods can be outfitted with all three weapon types, some can only be outfitted with two weapon types so while you can outfit as you'd like you're still restricted by what types a Clan battlemech can be fitted with.

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by Starker:

The "extremely restrictive" hardpoints of Mechwarrior 5 are closer to the lore and the tabletop and are far easier to balance. Expect them to be carried forward into future games. MWO's system is made-up, from a lore standpoint, and encouraged boating. See Battletech Strategic Operations > Page 188. There is no such thing as sizeless hardpoints because it can't be justified in-universe. It isn't "hard" if it can magically stretch. The mounting, ammo feed-way clearance, and power conduits to run a machine gun are very different in size than those for an AC/20. The technician must replace or rebuild the entire corresponding location of the mech to up-size a gun. The opposite, big gun to small gun, is allowed because the technician can add adapters/spacers to the mounting, fit a smaller feed-way in an over-sized space, and use connector adapters and transformers for the power conduits.

The devs stated, according to hearsay, that weapon hardpoint sizes were introduced to make the variants more distinct. The player is not supposed to have so much freedom that they can turn one variant into another. The market would be less critical if that were true.

Mechwarrior 5 mechlab allows a selection of refit classes from TT and is limited by what UE4 can model with reasonable effort. It mostly permits Class A and Class D refits, except changing of locations. If locations (side torsos, arms) could be swapped, they would be limited by what is already modeled in the game. This would be a good addition, in my opinion, and would allow some control over hardpoints. See my idea here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_tf1YXNqAWvsocUPNp0otMC_pTSf0OPkL2OUeBSyxGI/edit?usp=sharing

The devs approach to making variants distinct is lame compared to the MWO quirk system. It's far more interesting to see a manufacturers touch having an influence on the way a weapon fires (as an example) than it is to tediously have to get an exact variant to equip just the precise build you want in that given moment.

Especially as we are dealing with omnimechs now.

I'll take your word for it that "quirks" in MWO are a good addtion. I played MWO for about 2 seconds until I realized it didn't have torso counter twist. I can't go back to that with my wrist pain. Quirks are not mutually exclusive to any hardpoint system, as far as I can see.

You are not supposed to 100% perfectly tailor your mechs for every mission. You have to make compromises with your designs and work with what the markets give you at that specific time. Sometimes you forgoe defense missions if you have a fast, low-armor lance. That makes each play-through unique. The devs likely did not intend the player's lance to be multi-purpose-anti-everything.

However, I do agree that the new sized hardpoint system is lame(ish) in relation to the variety of weapons. There should be 3 sizes for all weapons in the game. A small energy hardpoint wouldn't be so bad if there were small PPCs, for example. (https://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Particle_Projector_Cannon)

We got our answer. Russ confirmed that the S, M, L hardpoint system from Mercs will be carried forward into Clans. MWO will be the last MW game from PGI with a TT-style mechlab. This isn't surprising, considering the balance issues in MWO.

He also said that omnipods will be "upgrades" that reconfigure hardpoints in mechs and there will be no variants. Everything is purchased/requisitioned as a prime, similar to MW4. It's not clear if NPC mechs will have loadouts different from the prime variants. I suspect they will, otherwise, things could get a little boring.

Source: https://youtu.be/quLsSdczMB8

Originally posted by Starker:

We got our answer. Russ confirmed that the S, M, L hardpoint system from Mercs will be carried forward into Clans. MWO will be the last MW game from PGI with a TT-style mechlab. This isn't surprising, considering the balance issues in MWO.

He also said that omnipods will be "upgrades" that reconfigure hardpoints in mechs and there will be no variants. Everything is purchased/requisitioned as a prime, similar to MW4. It's not clear if NPC mechs will have loadouts different from the prime variants. I suspect they will, otherwise, things could get a little boring.

Source: https://youtu.be/quLsSdczMB8

It sounds like they've made one improvement but are otherwise insistent on baby mode. Let's hope essential mods that remove the restrictions don't lose their support when PGI decides to add a hotfix five years after the games lifecycle, breaking every mod in the process.

Typical Russ L. They could easily make actual customisation a gameplay setting but they choose not do despite the feedback.

Originally posted by SUPERIOR MAN OF WONGUS WORDS:

Originally posted by Starker:

We got our answer. Russ confirmed that the S, M, L hardpoint system from Mercs will be carried forward into Clans. MWO will be the last MW game from PGI with a TT-style mechlab. This isn't surprising, considering the balance issues in MWO.

He also said that omnipods will be "upgrades" that reconfigure hardpoints in mechs and there will be no variants. Everything is purchased/requisitioned as a prime, similar to MW4. It's not clear if NPC mechs will have loadouts different from the prime variants. I suspect they will, otherwise, things could get a little boring.

Source: https://youtu.be/quLsSdczMB8

It sounds like they've made one improvement but are otherwise insistent on baby mode. Let's hope essential mods that remove the restrictions don't lose their support when PGI decides to add a hotfix five years after the games lifecycle, breaking every mod in the process.

Typical Russ L. They could easily make actual customisation a gameplay setting but they choose not do despite the feedback.

By "baby mode", do you mean the inability to swap non-weapon equipment such as engines, sensors, gyros, and actuators? If so, I agree. Adding a few alternate options for those slots would not overwhelm newcomers.

Keep in mind that his reason for adding sizes to hardpoints was to make the game harder, not easier. He wanted the differences between variants and, by extension, the mech market to have a greater effect on gameplay. I agree with this decision. He also used the term "hardpoint inflation" to refer to MWO and it's balance issues. PGI clearly doesn't want players boating the same weapon because it amplifies small numerical inbalances and can actually force them to suppress weapon variety.

I don't have time to parse the video, but I believe Russ mentions experimenting with a basic/advanced mechlab setting in this interview: https://youtu.be/JlASczWNGTY This could be the solution to many people's complaints while keeping the game marketable. Again, I highly doubt that advanced mode would remove hardpoint sizes because doing so makes the game easier.

Originally posted by Starker:

We got our answer. Russ confirmed that the S, M, L hardpoint system from Mercs will be carried forward into Clans. MWO will be the last MW game from PGI with a TT-style mechlab. This isn't surprising, considering the balance issues in MWO.

He also said that omnipods will be "upgrades" that reconfigure hardpoints in mechs and there will be no variants. Everything is purchased/requisitioned as a prime, similar to MW4. It's not clear if NPC mechs will have loadouts different from the prime variants. I suspect they will, otherwise, things could get a little boring.

Source: https://youtu.be/quLsSdczMB8

What's the point of adding omnipods as "upgrades" when that was never their purpose? They were invented with the sole purpose of allowing Clan to basically hot-swap weapon configurations rapidly to suit whatever was needed at that time.

Originally posted by malgrumm:

Originally posted by Starker:

We got our answer. Russ confirmed that the S, M, L hardpoint system from Mercs will be carried forward into Clans. MWO will be the last MW game from PGI with a TT-style mechlab. This isn't surprising, considering the balance issues in MWO.

He also said that omnipods will be "upgrades" that reconfigure hardpoints in mechs and there will be no variants. Everything is purchased/requisitioned as a prime, similar to MW4. It's not clear if NPC mechs will have loadouts different from the prime variants. I suspect they will, otherwise, things could get a little boring.

Source: https://youtu.be/quLsSdczMB8

What's the point of adding omnipods as "upgrades" when that was never their purpose? They were invented with the sole purpose of allowing Clan to basically hot-swap weapon configurations rapidly to suit whatever was needed at that time.

To clarify: he said that all mechs are purchased as primes then an omnipod kit is applied to the mech to alter it's hardpoints. He actually used the word "upgrade" which implies that all omnipod kits are better than the default prime loadout. I don't think this is the case and "upgrade" was a poor choice of words.

The discrepancy is that prime omnimechs are somehow "without omnipods" until the kit is applied. This would be odd, but not game-breaking. The lore describes prime omnimechs as built with omnipods that house all or some of their weapons. That standardized pod can be swapped later on. Russ is the CEO so he could be slightly out of the loop and misrepresenting what his subordinates told him.

Originally posted by Starker:

Originally posted by malgrumm:

What's the point of adding omnipods as "upgrades" when that was never their purpose? They were invented with the sole purpose of allowing Clan to basically hot-swap weapon configurations rapidly to suit whatever was needed at that time.

To clarify: he said that all mechs are purchased as primes then an omnipod kit is applied to the mech to alter it's hardpoints. He actually used the word "upgrade" which implies that all omnipod kits are better than the default prime loadout. I don't think this is the case and "upgrade" was a poor choice of words.

The discrepancy is that prime omnimechs are somehow "without omnipods" until the kit is applied. This would be odd, but not game-breaking. The lore describes prime omnimechs as built with omnipods that house all or some of their weapons. That standardized pod can be swapped later on. Russ is the CEO so he could be slightly out of the loop and misrepresenting what his subordinates told him.

Sounds like not even his subordinates know what they (omnipods) were designed for if that's the case...

Originally posted by malgrumm:

Originally posted by Starker:

To clarify: he said that all mechs are purchased as primes then an omnipod kit is applied to the mech to alter it's hardpoints. He actually used the word "upgrade" which implies that all omnipod kits are better than the default prime loadout. I don't think this is the case and "upgrade" was a poor choice of words.

The discrepancy is that prime omnimechs are somehow "without omnipods" until the kit is applied. This would be odd, but not game-breaking. The lore describes prime omnimechs as built with omnipods that house all or some of their weapons. That standardized pod can be swapped later on. Russ is the CEO so he could be slightly out of the loop and misrepresenting what his subordinates told him.

Sounds like not even his subordinates know what they (omnipods) were designed for if that's the case...

It is not necessary to apply the rules of the board game in simulators like Mechwarrior. It doesn't work that way, it has its own gameplay and in no game in the omnipod universe did they work like in a board game, even FASA had its own view on the rules when adapting them to PC games. In general, I will say that the rules of the board game should not be transferred to PC games at all, except that only in turn-based strategies. Well, again, no one is obliged to follow the exact canon when creating a particular game.

But at the same time, there is already more canon in PGI games than in all others. Over there, Mechwarrior 2: 31 Century Combat also has its nuances. All the characteristics of the iron were transferred from the board, damage, armor points, etc. And because of this, an imbalance appeared, in particular, the machine guns became very strong, which should not be. And so you can find fault with many things. You need to be able to adapt and find a balance. And again, why do we need to spend time repairing mechs and replacing equipment if we have a simulator and a linear campaign, and not an economic strategy with turn-based battles?

Not everyone wants a complex deep learning curve game, more time blowing up stuff than figuring out how something works is more fun.

You shouldn't have to be a hard core og fan to enjoy this.