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Species[]
Since the latest chapter had Momoshiki reveal that Boruto had become a pure full-blooded Ōtsutsuki, shouldn't Boruto's species now be classified as "Celestial Being" just like the other Ōtsutsuki members?
HygorBohmHubner (talk) 17:36, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- It's tricky. On one hand, Boruto still looks like himself, not to mention Momoshiki even claims portion of his data was rewritten into Boruto's own cells, so eh... in my opinion, I still stand firm that Karma getting extracted into a vessel doesn't actually replace their DNA/cells whatever until the reincarnation itself takes place. If anything, Boruto still has his own DNA/cells and Momoshiki's in one body... in a way he is a hybrid more than anything, but that's just my opinion.Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 21:21, 20 February 2022 (UTC)
- Celestial Being hybrid is also an option as shown by Toneri. Arcadia warlic (talk) 03:07, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
I agree with both cause given he's purely a Ōtsutsuki but ain't himself is tricky so yes I would go with Hybrid but would also go with Celestial Being, i'm torn in between both choices but Hybrid sounds much better just to not complicate this as it is. Garnet von Schweetz (talk) 12:40 pm, 24 February 2022
- If it's stated he is full Otsutsuki, then that should be what we document. Munchvtec (talk) 12:08, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- But the dialogue also states part of Momoshiki's data got converted into Boruto's own cells. Not to mention I am still of the notion that the rewrite itself happens only during the process of resurrection, meaning Boruto's DNA and cells are untouched, so technically he IS and ISN'T an Otsutsuki at the same time. I think hybrid is safer.Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 12:32, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- I'm actually really liking this conversation. There are two points that I want to make first however. From what I read at least, Momoshiki mentioned the following quote: "...you are now a pure, genuine, complete Ōtsutsuki..."[1] What I could see from this is that Boruto himself is merely a skin for Momoshiki, but also carrying an active consciousness. Since the extraction is complete, I feel like Boruto's genetic makeup actually ceased to exist now that his body was overwritten by Momoshiki. The application and process of the extraction already happened, but with a minor error (the opportunity of resurrection being nuked). That doesn't change the fact that Boruto himself has been overwritten at this point internally. I think it's safe to say he's a pure Ōtsutsuki based on that conjecture. Now the issue with this, would be that Jigen himself would have to be labeled as one as well. Unlike Boruto, Isshiki took the extra steps and actually resurrected from Jigen. He didn't want to (and enjoyed his numerous wines and good food) because he was waiting on Kawaki's full extraction, so Elve makes a pretty solid point that since the resurrection in Boruto actually has not (and based on what we know, will not), take place, he isn't an Ōtsutsuki.
-Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work }
13:58, 24 February 2022 (UTC)- I don't really think the Karma rewrites/replaces DNA or cells though. Otherwise Boruto would look exactly like Momoshiki and if not Boruto, then Jigen would have turned into Isshiki by his introduction, because cells regenerate circa every 7-10 years or so. I think it's a case of chimerism... Boruto simply carries Momoshiki's DNA inside of his body as well. I think the replacement process occurs only during resurrecting, hence that's why the host dies.Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 15:53, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- I think from a purely biological standpoint, it's correct. The "overwriting" part is what throws me off though. I'm not saying that Boruto's own DNA is wiped out, but rather overwritten by Momoshiki's to hold a dominant genetic template over Boruto's own. It's kinda why I mentioned that his own template ceased to exist, as it is no longer solely his.
-Ventillate { About Me | Message | My Work }
17:04, 24 February 2022 (UTC)- Only skimmed through the above, so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else already said. Based on what Momo said, the way understand what happened to Boruto is as follows. Imagine Momo and Boruto are two music files. Momo's file was overwriting Boruto's file, but that stopped and some of Boruto's song remained. Because he said his own data in the Kama was already Otsutsuki, I think this means that despite Boruto still having his own data, the fact is his data is now in an Otsutsuki file format. The Kama was able to heal Boruto because Boruto's data was reformatted into the Otsutsuki file format, allowing the Kama program to play the new organ files. You can have two files with the same song in it, but encoded with different codecs and stored under different formats. Based on this, I think the most accurate course of action would be to change Boruto's species to how list any other full Otsutsuki. Does my file format analogy make sense? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:18, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- Though I understand the logic behind this, the same would have to apply to Jigen then. Jigen was already overwritten as Isshiki had plenty of time for the Kāma to fully extract from Jigen. Amado even mentioned that although Jigen was ordinarily human, he became an Ōtsutsuki. I'm fine with this then as long as the same applies to Jigen. In terms of infobox functions, both would have to be special exceptions from the Ōtsutsuki clan.
-Ventillate { 👤 | 💬 | 🔧 }
15:06, 13 March 2022 (UTC)- I agree with extending this change to Jigen. The only potential wrinkle yet to solve would Code, I'm not sure how exactly this would work with his White Kama. They have mentioned it's defective, but have mentioned it changed his body, making him even stronger than Jigen. However, there was no indication he knew of stuff like the instinctual chakra signature erasure, and Isshiki's last words to him were a command to become a new Otsutsuki by consuming a chakra fruit, the implication I get from it being that whatever he is now, he's not quite an Otsutsuki proper. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Based on what we know, I'd classify code as a modified-Human being like Kawaki. Like you mentioned, there is still some lack of understanding as to how the White Kāma plays into this, but by the definition of what the original Kāma does, it likely suggests that his isn't nowhere near to a purebred Ōtsutsuki, but rather harbors their powers. Maybe this could be a somewhat "alternative Six Paths Madara" in regards to obtaining the fruit?
-Ventillate { 👤 | 💬 | 🔧 }
21:07, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Based on what we know, I'd classify code as a modified-Human being like Kawaki. Like you mentioned, there is still some lack of understanding as to how the White Kāma plays into this, but by the definition of what the original Kāma does, it likely suggests that his isn't nowhere near to a purebred Ōtsutsuki, but rather harbors their powers. Maybe this could be a somewhat "alternative Six Paths Madara" in regards to obtaining the fruit?
- I agree with extending this change to Jigen. The only potential wrinkle yet to solve would Code, I'm not sure how exactly this would work with his White Kama. They have mentioned it's defective, but have mentioned it changed his body, making him even stronger than Jigen. However, there was no indication he knew of stuff like the instinctual chakra signature erasure, and Isshiki's last words to him were a command to become a new Otsutsuki by consuming a chakra fruit, the implication I get from it being that whatever he is now, he's not quite an Otsutsuki proper. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 20:57, 13 March 2022 (UTC)
- Though I understand the logic behind this, the same would have to apply to Jigen then. Jigen was already overwritten as Isshiki had plenty of time for the Kāma to fully extract from Jigen. Amado even mentioned that although Jigen was ordinarily human, he became an Ōtsutsuki. I'm fine with this then as long as the same applies to Jigen. In terms of infobox functions, both would have to be special exceptions from the Ōtsutsuki clan.
- Only skimmed through the above, so forgive me if I'm repeating what someone else already said. Based on what Momo said, the way understand what happened to Boruto is as follows. Imagine Momo and Boruto are two music files. Momo's file was overwriting Boruto's file, but that stopped and some of Boruto's song remained. Because he said his own data in the Kama was already Otsutsuki, I think this means that despite Boruto still having his own data, the fact is his data is now in an Otsutsuki file format. The Kama was able to heal Boruto because Boruto's data was reformatted into the Otsutsuki file format, allowing the Kama program to play the new organ files. You can have two files with the same song in it, but encoded with different codecs and stored under different formats. Based on this, I think the most accurate course of action would be to change Boruto's species to how list any other full Otsutsuki. Does my file format analogy make sense? Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:18, 26 February 2022 (UTC)
- I think from a purely biological standpoint, it's correct. The "overwriting" part is what throws me off though. I'm not saying that Boruto's own DNA is wiped out, but rather overwritten by Momoshiki's to hold a dominant genetic template over Boruto's own. It's kinda why I mentioned that his own template ceased to exist, as it is no longer solely his.
- I don't really think the Karma rewrites/replaces DNA or cells though. Otherwise Boruto would look exactly like Momoshiki and if not Boruto, then Jigen would have turned into Isshiki by his introduction, because cells regenerate circa every 7-10 years or so. I think it's a case of chimerism... Boruto simply carries Momoshiki's DNA inside of his body as well. I think the replacement process occurs only during resurrecting, hence that's why the host dies.Elve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 15:53, 24 February 2022 (UTC)
- I'm actually really liking this conversation. There are two points that I want to make first however. From what I read at least, Momoshiki mentioned the following quote: "...you are now a pure, genuine, complete Ōtsutsuki..."[1] What I could see from this is that Boruto himself is merely a skin for Momoshiki, but also carrying an active consciousness. Since the extraction is complete, I feel like Boruto's genetic makeup actually ceased to exist now that his body was overwritten by Momoshiki. The application and process of the extraction already happened, but with a minor error (the opportunity of resurrection being nuked). That doesn't change the fact that Boruto himself has been overwritten at this point internally. I think it's safe to say he's a pure Ōtsutsuki based on that conjecture. Now the issue with this, would be that Jigen himself would have to be labeled as one as well. Unlike Boruto, Isshiki took the extra steps and actually resurrected from Jigen. He didn't want to (and enjoyed his numerous wines and good food) because he was waiting on Kawaki's full extraction, so Elve makes a pretty solid point that since the resurrection in Boruto actually has not (and based on what we know, will not), take place, he isn't an Ōtsutsuki.
References[]
- ↑ Boruto chapter 67, page 38
Byakugan (Karma)[]
I'm starting this topic because it intrigues me a lot, I don't understand why you consider that Isshiki's dojutsu must be put on Kawaki's page, but Momoshiki's Byakugan can't be put on Boruto's . I discussed with an admin the reasons for this and what I read is aberrant, already including multiple errors such as "Boruto channels Momoshiki's soul" when not... Amado explained it, karma is only the "door" that allows access to the Otsutsuki powers as well as the combat experience contained in the user's body, so it doesn't matter if his karma is artificial, it's indeed the Isshiki's powers that Kawaki uses. Regarding Boruto when in chapter 63 he deployed the true power of his kama (without Momoshiki taking control) a Byakugan manifested, it's obviously due to the powers of Momoshiki contained in his body (but not due to his soul present in Boruto's body) so basically explain to me what is the difference between Boruto and Kawaki? The only difference is that Boruto is inhabited by Momoshiki's soul, but his soul has never granted additional powers that Karma doesn't grant, conclusion if we disregard Momoshiki's soul inside Boruto, Boruto and Kawaki have no difference, so I repeat my question, why refuse to add the Byakugan as Boruto's dojutsu knowing that he can activate it (and probably use it since the combat experience of the otsutsuki allows the user to fight as the otsutsuki would without having to learn how to use powers) thanks to Karma without Momoshiki intervening (ref Chapter 1, End of Chapter 63, Chapter 64) but agree to add Isshiki's dojutsu on Kawaki's page ? also even if this power comes from something else, I don't see why we can't add it to Boruto when Naruto's kekkei genkai come from the Biju's chakra and Obito and Madara's Mokuton comes from the cells of Hashirama implanted in their body. Since Boruto's DNA has been modified it's not a temporary power and can be considered a similar case to Madara and Obito. ZéroFusion0 (talk) 21:59, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- You've said it yourself, and have been told it already. You're missing the point of the very metaphor you're using. Kawaki is considered a user of Isshiki's jutsu because Isshiki's soul has expired. There's no new house-owner, so he gets the keep the new furniture when the door opened again. Boruto has only displayed a Byakugan whenever Momoshiki took control. When he fought Code, Momoshiki didn't take over at first because of Amado's drugs, and even still, the drugs only delayed it a bit. What Boruto used in the flashforward wasn't the Byakugan, but Jogan, which he saw him having since before he even met Momoshiki, and therefore irrelevant to this. The most similar case is as you've mentioned with tailed beast skills. For example, Naruto was only considered a Tailed Beast Ball user when he was able to use it by himself, instead of when Kurama used it when going four-tails against Orochimaru for example. This is why he has the tailed beast chakra natures. Boruto remained in control for very little time, and made no use of Byakugan before Momoshiki manifested again. Similarly, this is why Momoshiki is considered the sole user of Spiralling Bullet, because he was the one in control of the body. Momoshiki can no longer resurrect, but he's not gone, so his stuff is still his. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 22:40, 19 March 2022 (UTC)
- I find it odd that Black Zetsu is listed as a user of Obito's eyes despite not even sharing a body but Boruto cannot be listed with byakugan despite it literally being genetically part of him and even at one point having a form where its manifested without losing control of himself. zacharyman1mil - Talk 8:05, 1 march 2023 (UTC)
Lightning vs Wind Affinity[]
To settle a current edit war, in Boruto episode 60, Sasuke says boruto has a strong Lightning nature that will let him be able to use powerful techniques in time, and later in episode 168 Boruto tells Kakashi he thinks his change of chakra nature speciality is Wind Release. Neither statements directly says what his affinity is, but Sasuke's comment is more accurate to what an affinity does, and a speciality could mean a variety of different things. So what nature should be listed as his affinity if one at all? Sarutobii2 (talk) 02:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
- It's obviously Lightning. Consider the following: Vanishing Rasengan is his signature and he applied nature transformation to Rasengan subconsciously back then, while he had to train in order to use Wind Release Rasengan, case closedElve [Mod] Talk Page|Contribs 11:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)
Yeah, lightning is his natural affinity being as he subconsciously was able to add it to his rasengan. Here's the thing though.. some people such as the Uchiha have a natural fire release affinity.. BUT it's also possible they have a second natural affinity such as with Sasuke having a natural affinity for lightning release as well. So Boruto could easily have two natural affinities as well but I feel lightning would be number 1 between his two. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 02:10, 19 March 2023 (UTC)
Nobody should actually care what some folks here imagine to themselves. All these speculations and interpretations above worth nothing. We have a newer episode (168) and we have now TWO characters confirming Boruto's affinity - Wind Release, including Boruto himself. There is totally no reason to cling on to the old episode, especially when there was only the speculation of ONE character and nothing specific. I also don't agree to the current wording in the article, as it totally ignores Kakashi's statement later in the episode and leaves it only as Sasuke vs Boruto. Faust-RSI (talk) 06:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- What was Kakashi's later statement? Sarutobii2 (talk) 06:40, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- When explaining to Boruto about the mechanics he said something like "now you should add your main element - wind - to your Rasengan". You can watch for yourself, of course. Faust-RSI (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
- From what i could see Kakashi just called Wind Release Boruto's speciality. The same could be said about Rōshi's speciality being Lava Release which isn't an Affinity. Sarutobii2 (talk) 04:53, 22 March 2023 (UTC)
- When explaining to Boruto about the mechanics he said something like "now you should add your main element - wind - to your Rasengan". You can watch for yourself, of course. Faust-RSI (talk) 14:55, 21 March 2023 (UTC)
Academy age[]
Where was it stated that he was 11 when graduating the academy? Cygne999 (talk)
- My understanding is that since we saw his 12th birthday, the one Naruto missed, he'd have to be 11 upon becoming a genin not long before. 12 also seems to be the usual graduation age when there are no extraordinary circumstances. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 02:24, 16 July 2023 (UTC)
I see. I thought the birthday Naruto missed was his 12th, but i don't think they actually state his age during that birthday, so its hard to know either way. Cygne999 (talk) 18:15, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- From movie promo material, we know he's meant to be 12 when Momoshiki and Kinshiki attack. He's still 12 in the last chapter before the timeskip to TBV. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 23:41, 3 September 2023 (UTC)
- About a year passes from Momoshiki's attack to the later parts of the Boruto manga. There is a quiet time-skip right before the beginning of the Ao arc (in which the Retsuden novels also slot into). Mentions of the Fourth Shinobi World War go from fifteen to sixteen. Likewise, Boruto is (going to be) sixteen in Two Blue Vortex, three years after Part I, so he would be thirteen when it ends (unless he is currently fifteen in chapter 1?).
As for when he graduated, Sarada is directly stated to be eleven in Naruto Gaiden, which takes place shortly before the Academy graduation, as stated by Shino in that chapter. I suppose some time could have passed betwixt Gaiden and the actual graduation, so a range of 11-12 could also work (at which point they are decidedly twelve during the exams). Arcadia warlic (talk) 09:27, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- When has a "quiet timeskip" before the Ao arc ever been established? Boruto is explicitly mentioned to be 12 by the end of part 1 in two different scenes with Ada, once while he and Kawaki are still house-sitting with her (same scene where she says she's 16), and in the last scene of Part 1, when Ada is impressed with Boruto's attitude, she goes "are you sure you're just 12?". If I'm not mistaken, Boruto's age as 16 comes from a character model sheet of him during the flashforward at the start of the series, but that would be from the anime. With Sarada's "he left three years ago", it could be reasonable to consider Boruto's starting age in Part 2 should be 15 at first glance. The issue comes in when we don't know how specific that is. Any period of time between "this is the 3 year anniversary of Boruto's defection" and "tomorrow is the 4 year anniversary of Boruto's departure" can be described as 3 years. Boruto can be 12 at the end of Part 1 and already be 16 at the start of Part 2, if for example, he was closer to 13 than 12 (or almost 13) at the end of Part 1 (possible and probable, he was already 12 during Otsutsuki invasion for a bit, and was still 12 at end of Part 1), and the 3 years away from Konoha are actually 3 years and enough months for him to turn 16. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 19:47, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
- Naruto mentions Boruto's training has shown fruit (he now has full-scale Water Release which he did not show earlier), mentions of the Fourth Shinobi World War go from fifteen years ago to sixteen years ago, more birthdays in the anime pass, and the Retsuden trilogy which themselves take up a decent span of time come and go. As I said, him almost being thirteen is also an option, yes. Arcadia warlic (talk) 03:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Glad we agree him being closer to 13 seeming accurate. Don't know much about the timing of the Retsuden trilogy, but the Water Release use seems not a strong indicator. Boruto's profile published in the first volume of the manga, covering up to chapter 3, already lists him as using Water Release by himself by the time the Chunin Exams begin, in addition to wind and lightning. Where are the mentions of the war going from 15 to 16 years prior? Manga or anime? I recall the anime making glaring errors at various points, such as repeated mentions of the war happening 10 years ago in episodes 51 and 52, and Onoki being incorrectly aged at 100 at the time of death. If there is a known, accurate mention, that would be good to keep in mind, maybe even see if there's somewhere to put in a relevant article. The only mention of 16 years I could find after a cursory search was in episode 213, a mention that does not exist in the corresponding chapters 45 and 46, so something I'd take with a grain a salt. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- It also lists him as being able to use Shiden on his own, but that seemingly did not come about until after the exams. The manga profile seemingly jumped the gun on a few of the listed abilities. Ao lists the sixteen year gap in both the anime and manga, whilst before it is fifteen years. Arcadia warlic (talk) 09:57, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
- Glad we agree him being closer to 13 seeming accurate. Don't know much about the timing of the Retsuden trilogy, but the Water Release use seems not a strong indicator. Boruto's profile published in the first volume of the manga, covering up to chapter 3, already lists him as using Water Release by himself by the time the Chunin Exams begin, in addition to wind and lightning. Where are the mentions of the war going from 15 to 16 years prior? Manga or anime? I recall the anime making glaring errors at various points, such as repeated mentions of the war happening 10 years ago in episodes 51 and 52, and Onoki being incorrectly aged at 100 at the time of death. If there is a known, accurate mention, that would be good to keep in mind, maybe even see if there's somewhere to put in a relevant article. The only mention of 16 years I could find after a cursory search was in episode 213, a mention that does not exist in the corresponding chapters 45 and 46, so something I'd take with a grain a salt. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 05:23, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
- Naruto mentions Boruto's training has shown fruit (he now has full-scale Water Release which he did not show earlier), mentions of the Fourth Shinobi World War go from fifteen years ago to sixteen years ago, more birthdays in the anime pass, and the Retsuden trilogy which themselves take up a decent span of time come and go. As I said, him almost being thirteen is also an option, yes. Arcadia warlic (talk) 03:22, 5 September 2023 (UTC)
So this means that that by the time of the 16 years statement, Boruto will be turning 13 that year and Sarada will be 12 that year? Since her being 11 is shortly before the Graduation which at that time they still say the War was 15 years ago.
Nah nevermind, she would also be turning 13 in the 16th year, while turning 12 in the 15th year. BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 12:26, 6 September 2023 (UTC)
Boruto's use of frogs[]
in the latest manga chapter we saw frogs on him under his cloak, which reminded me of both naruto and jiraya's summoning of frogs, is this some kind of new ability and should it get mentioned? Fanking 12:54 October, 29th, 2023 (UTC)
- Would wait until the next chapter. They are Kashin's modified toads, and the end blurb of the chapter alludes to him. Munchvtec (talk) 19:59, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
They look like Koji’s Surveillance/ Scout Toads.SilentWolfKills (talk) 20:02, 29 October 2023 (BTS)
- They might not even be actual toads. They might be androids (One of Kashin Koji's toads were shrunk via Sukunahikona which is not possible for living beings). Arcadia warlic (talk) 12:12, 31 October 2023 (UTC)
Boruto's 15-16yr old height[]
There is an interview from before Two Blue Vortex and about 11 months ago where his voice actor Yuko Sanpei revealed that Boruto will be taller than Naruto after the time-skip. I had the link to it but I lost it. Does anybody else have that link? BloodOfTheArchon (talk) 21:58, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
New lightning release ability?[]
In the newest manga chapter Boruto uses some kind of lightning release against that bug clone. Is that a new abilitie,also that bug clone attacks him with a giant claw thing, so is that a Jutsu too for bug and also that female grime clone resembles moegi and can those grimes use the reverse scale technique? Fanking Utc 1:13, 21, November, 2023
- Not the place to discuss Bug's stuff. Boruto's looked like a discount Chidori Current. Would still not list him as an user there for now because Chidori stuff despite not being kekkei genkai usually requires Sharingan. Omnibender - Talk - Contributions 01:30, 3 December 2023 (UTC)