Julia Golomb 2:52 am on May 21, 2024

Proposal to Update Our Event Venue Policy

The WordPress community’s commitment to creating welcoming, inclusive, and accessible events is unwavering. By periodically revisiting our policies and adapting to the evolving needs of our community, we can ensure the continued vibrancy and success of the WordPress events program. In this spirit, I propose we revisit our venue selection policy, specifically regarding the use of venues with religious affiliations.

Currently, our policy restricts the use of venues with any religious affiliation, a guideline initially set with the best intentions to ensure WordPress events are inclusive and welcoming for all attendees — a principle of unequivocal importance. However, this policy inadvertently limits event organizers’ access to various affordable and accessible venues. This challenge is particularly pronounced in regions where the costs associated with venue rentals have surged in recent years. Notably, many universities that could serve as ideal venues are off-limits due to their religious affiliations, despite being open and welcoming to all individuals, events, and groups.

Proposed Policy Update

I propose that we refine our venue selection policy to permit the use of venues owned by institutions with religious affiliations, provided these venues are not used for religious worship and maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination. This adjustment aims to broaden the pool of potential venues available to organizers, thereby strengthening our community by ensuring our events remain accessible and inclusive, without compromising our coreCore Core is the set of software required to run WordPress. The Core Development Team builds WordPress. values.

What Do You Think?

Your feedback is invaluable. Please share your thoughts in the comments below, considering the following questions:

Based on your experience, how do you perceive this change will impact the WordPress events program?
Are there additional considerations we should be mindful of?

Please share your thoughts in the comments below by Monday, 3 June.

Next Steps

After 3 June, the Community Team will carefully review and synthesize your collective feedback to guide us in making an informed decision about the proposed policy update.

Thanks to @_dorsvenabili @kcristiano and @courtneypk for their review and feedback on this post.

Mariano Perez 5:50 am on May 21, 2024

I agree 👍
Topher 1:46 pm on May 21, 2024

This would be a huge deal in Grand Rapids MI, opening up a wide range of options. I heartily approve.
Terri Tutich 3:25 pm on May 21, 2024

I love this idea. One of the biggest challenges in planning past WordCamps in Pittsburgh was finding a venue. Even though we have many colleges in and around the city, many do have a religious affiliation even though they are no overtly religious. I know this will make it easier to find venues in many areas.
Rocio Valdivia 8:51 am on May 22, 2024

+1 to this!
Courtney P.K. 9:14 pm on May 22, 2024

provided these venues are not used for religious worship and maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination

This is key, and I agree with this. Thank you for proposing it!
- nathanbweller 6:06 pm on May 23, 2024
  
  I second this sentiment.
  - David G. Johnson 6:08 pm on May 23, 2024
    
    Agreed!
- David Levine 6:11 pm on May 23, 2024
  
  Agreed!!
- Josh Gellock 9:01 pm on June 14, 2024
  
  Agreed!
Tom Finley 2:04 pm on May 23, 2024

WordPress Washington DC is one of the meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. encountering complications largely due to this existing policy (our unique jurisdictional geography being the other huge stumbling blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience.), so I’m all for revisiting and revising it.

As stated above, and to paraphrase an acquaintance, we have to establish some sort of litmus around the notion of who the venue embraces (tolerance is insufficient):

Do you welcome people, without agenda, from all walks of life — people who are LGBTQIA+, disabled, from any race, and members ALL religions? If the tacit acceptance and safety of people from communities above like students, parishioners, customers, etc. is at all in question we must conclude it isn’t a safe venue for anyone else.
Sandy Edwards 5:52 pm on May 23, 2024

We have a massive hospital network here with event space that is NOT actually in a hospital but at a community center. This would allow us to hold a workshop day easily and affordably within a building that only has a coffee shop, gym, and sports medicine center. This would be HUGE for our meetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. and our community because Orlando is ridiculously expensive. I love this idea!
alwaysblank 6:18 pm on May 23, 2024

Seems like a good idea but I think it would be prudent to be more explicit about our criteria for “maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination” beyond their website saying so. I.E. if we’re considering an event at a building on a campus but they recently fired a professor for posting a photo on social media with his husband, or they just hosted a event for a thinly-veiled white supremacist org, then they’re not a non-discriminatory as they claim.
- Tom Finley 8:02 pm on May 23, 2024
  
  ^ 100% this
Roger 6:42 pm on May 23, 2024

Seems reasonable to me.
Jamie 7:01 pm on May 23, 2024

I’m supportive of this for sure as long as we know their openness to hosting events for all without discrimination isn’t just lip service.
- Francesca Marano 10:25 am on June 14, 2024
  
  +1
Adam W. Warner 8:05 pm on May 23, 2024

+1 It’s clear this will open up opportunities for MeetupMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. and WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. organizers. And regarding the specifics of being inclusive, I would leave that to the organizers to decide as their reviewing venues.
- Adam W. Warner 4:22 pm on May 30, 2024
  
  they’re 🙂
Aaron Jorbin 8:49 pm on May 23, 2024

provided these venues are not used for religious worship and maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination

I’m not sure this goes far enough to ensure that these venues will provide a welcoming experience for those who are not members of that religion or have suffered from religious trauma. I think it would be better if the requirement states that these venues may not display religious iconography or paraphernalia and they also have no attempts at proselytizing.
Andrew Palmer 6:00 am on May 24, 2024

On the face of it, this proposal, is great. Cheaper venues suitable for largish(ish) gatherings is an opportunity not to be missed.

As a community we welcome DEIB – this is a conflict as far as some religious organisations. It has to be said however, that since WordPress and it’s policies were introduced – Religious policies have become more open to DEIB .

As far as the law in the UK is concerned – religious organisations are legally allowed to discriminate against LGBTQ.

“What can they do do?

The Equality Act says a religious organisation can do the following things:

exclude you from participation in certain activities or services they offer

restrict membership of the organisation

restrict the use of its premises. ”

Is this a can of worms we want to open? If it is, be prepared for rejection.
- Tim Nash 9:21 am on May 24, 2024
  
  Just to push back a little, the “restrict the use of its premises” is very narrowly defined.
  
  A religious group could state we don’t want a event that is aimed at promoting x or y as its against our religion. It is absouletely in breach of the act if it refused a person to an event based on a protected characteristics.
  
  So in no way if a WordPress event was to be held could the organisation legally prevent people protected characteristics from attending it.
  
  The bigger issues is would they feel welcomed and would it be a welcoming space.
  
  In some cases I suspect that would be yes especially if it was a purpose built conference centre and in other cases absouletely not. Having recently attended an event in what I initially thought was a general conference venue it had posters on the wall I found abhorent and was shocked at both the venue and the organisers.
  
  So while the law may protect that doesn’t mean its welcoming or that people won’t misinterpret the law and honestly who will fight them, sadly we would just move on.
Scott Kingsley Clark 1:04 pm on May 24, 2024

If we move forward with this, there will certainly be a chilling effect on some LGBTQ people who would otherwise want to attend. Some religious venues and their organizations are more open and welcoming, but I could see abuse of opening this up without stipulation in the guidelines.

Surely, this may be something that will have to be ironed out over time as we discover certain problems that make the most sense for WordCamps to stay clear of.

I agreed when the original guideline here was put in place and was part of discussions on it at one of the earlier Community Summits. While I disagree with opening it up purely based on financial reasons, there are definitely religious venues that are positive outliers which would be less divisive and much more welcoming to.
Steven Stern (sterndata) 1:16 pm on May 24, 2024

I agree. As one of the organizers of the late, lamented WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more. Chicago 2022, we couldn’t use a number of excellent, well-located venues including Loyola and Depaul universities and would have held it in our fourth or fifth choice.
David Dashifen Kees 2:43 pm on May 24, 2024

Let me preface this by saying that I am employed by Georgetown University, a Catholic affiliated school; I have earned a Master in Divinity degree from the Iliff School of Theology; and I act as clergy for a small religious organization. I’m also queer and trans, so this is a tough one for me.

(Note: this opinion is my own and does not reflect positions of any of the organizations mentioned above. They’re provided for context, as are the details about me as a person.)

I agree that we should reconsider the policy. However, I’m not sure that the phrase “provided these venues are not used for religious worship” is strong enough. For example, at Georgetown, we have a chapel, as many if not most colleges and universities probably do, especially in what has become known as the United States. If worship services happened to be taking place at the chapel while WordPress hosted an event elsewhere on campus, does that violate the policy? Many religions view some behaviors, including but not limited to proselytizing, as a virtuous but not necessarily worship. I would be personally and professionally offended if someone were to engage in such behaviors during a professional event.

Furthermore, as others have mentioned, actions speak louder than words. The phrase “maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination” is great, but I suspect most religiously affiliated organizations have such a policy, but they may engage in behaviors or practices (religious or otherwise) that reflect a different understanding of what it means to be “without discrimination” than we might prefer. Realistically, this phrase should apply to all of our venues, not just religious ones, but it’s especially fraught if we do alter our policy to include them.

Honestly, leave the policy the way it is. Especially because individual event organizers, I’m thinking local WordCamps and meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. here, may not have the religious literacy to know who’s who, especially as the religious landscape changes over time. It’s unfortunate because there are so many religiously-affiliated venues at a variety of institutions (as mentioned above), but the fact of the matter is, there may be too many variables to adequately and accurate identify the religiously-affiliated venues that we want to work with and ones that we do not.

But, if it has to change, folks are going to need a lot more guidance about how to determine which venues are viable and which are not.
Michelle Frechette 3:02 pm on May 24, 2024

As someone who has struggled to find affordable venues in the past, this would open up so many more possibilities.

However, vetting a venue as “welcoming and open to all individuals” should be something that requires conversation and research, venue by venue. As we seek to grow the WordPress user base, we should be looking for locations that are without-a-doubt inclusive spaces. People with religious trauma (and there are A LOT of us) aren’t always open to speaking up about it. Instead they/we may suffer in silence or simply not attend where we either don’t feel welcome or in places that instill anxiety or worse.

You don’t have to fit any underrepresented group for religious trauma to be part of your past.

And, of course, my perspective is entirely USA-based. I can’t help but wonder what this would look like in other parts of the world.

Definitely something worth considering – but considering well.
Stephen Page 5:09 pm on May 24, 2024

So you’d be asking WordPress attendees, as an LGBTQ, Muslim, Christian, etc., to pay money that will in turn be given to a religious organization (for use of the space) that they are opposed to (or is apposed to their very existence)? You are asking them to, in some small way, support that group?

And this is coming from my plain-bread, US, white cis male experience…

I am not sure that will ever feel good, welcoming, inclusive, etc to those folks.
Courtney Robertson 6:47 pm on May 24, 2024
I must say, I am struggling to gather my thoughts on this. While letting these ideas steep, I have contacted various community members to hear their opinions and nudged folks toward commenting. However, many won’t comment, even with an offer from me to post anonymously on their behalf.

Friends within the LGBTQIA+ community and long-time WordPress contributors shared their frustration and personal hurt caused by the project leader’s doxxing. They do not feel safe nor interested in participating further in the community, which is heartbreaking.

As I look over the comments, I grow concerned. I’m familiar with many camps that would benefit from easing restrictions, but I also recognize when initiatives receive a lot of “sounds good to me” responses without thorough consideration. We should not change restrictions without further thought.

Broader Input Needed

Can we hear more from people in various continents? I am personally unfamiliar with the implications in many Asian nations. I’d also love to hear from places where there is an official state religion. Would this change matters?

Balancing Social Sustainability and DEIB

We must also weigh the WordPress project’s need for social sustainability against the ramifications of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging (DEIB). Are we willing to lose or never gain some community members who find events at such places problematic? This is a crucial consideration.

Formal Assessment Process Proposal

To ensure a comprehensive evaluation, I propose the following formal process:
1. Global Survey: Conduct a survey targeting diverse regions to gather input on how this policy change might impact their local communities.
2. Focus Groups: Organize focus groups with representatives from various backgrounds, including those from regions with official state religions and LGBTQIA+ communities. Include as well intentional global and cultural diversity.
3. Venue Vetting Criteria: Develop explicit criteria for vetting venues, ensuring they truly maintain a policy of openness and non-discrimination beyond just their stated policies.
4. Case Studies: Analyze case studies of past events held in religiously affiliated venues to understand potential challenges and benefits.
5. Study other open sourceOpen Source Open Source denotes software for which the original source code is made freely available and may be redistributed and modified. Open Source **must be** delivered via a licensing model, see GPL. projects: Explore how other OSS projects utilize metrics to track event locations and inclusivity. This examination will help us understand different approaches and assess how they align with our DEIB standards. See CHAOSS example
Thought Provoking Questions
- What if the multipurpose room is ideal for presentations and has held worship services?
- What if the institution does not permit women in leadership, gay marriages, or a slew of other things but does allow women to lead women and blesses unions?
- What if the venue has a history of discriminatory practices but has since made efforts to change and become more inclusive?
- What if the venue is the only option available within a certain budget or location constraints?
- What if the venue’s staff are supportive and inclusive, but the institution’s policies are not?
By addressing these questions and following a structured process, we can better understand the complexities involved in updating the event venue policy and ensure any changes made are thoughtful and inclusive.
Anonymous Account 2:10 pm on May 25, 2024

As an individual who has transitioned from Christianity to atheism and identifies as a white, straight male in North America, I’d like to share my perspective.

When considering attending a WordCampWordCamp WordCamps are casual, locally-organized conferences covering everything related to WordPress. They're one of the places where the WordPress community comes together to teach one another what they’ve learned throughout the year and share the joy. Learn more., I take into account whether the event has any religious affiliations displayed on their website. If it does, I will choose not to attend. I’m aware that my decision alone may not significantly impact attendance numbers, but when multiplied by others who share similar sentiments (and wish to remain anonymous), it can add up. For instance, if each of us knows approximately five people who are contemplating attending, informing them of our reasons for abstaining could influence up to 25 potential attendees.

My reluctance stems from the financial aspect as well. I don’t want to contribute money to a WordCamp that indirectly supports a venue with religious ties, even if it’s just a token of appreciation. In my opinion, hosting an event at a location with any religious signage sends a message that only those who adhere to that specific faith are truly welcome. While organizers and venue staff may attempt to remove overt religious symbols, there remains an inherent bias. What one person might perceive as non-religious, another could interpret differently.

Consider the practical challenges as well. Even if only a small section of the website or venue displays religious elements, it’s impossible to blockBlock Block is the abstract term used to describe units of markup that, composed together, form the content or layout of a webpage using the WordPress editor. The idea combines concepts of what in the past may have achieved with shortcodes, custom HTML, and embed discovery into a single consistent API and user experience. off every hallway or corner. Attendees will inevitably encounter these spaces. Some individuals will continue walking past, unaffected. Others might feel invited and spend time in the religious spaces. However, there’s also a third group — one filled with anger — who could reactReact React is a JavaScript library that makes it easy to reason about, construct, and maintain stateless and stateful user interfaces. https://reactjs.org/. unpredictably upon encountering such symbols. As event organizers, we must carefully consider whom we cater to and make feel welcome when choosing WordCamp venues.

While many religious organizations boast large buildings with ample parking space (depending on the location), I often find myself pondering an alternative use for the funds invested in constructing these places. Instead of erecting grand structures, what if we directed those resources toward making the world a better place? I suspect I’m not the only one who contemplates this.

For those deeply entrenched in WordCamps, it’s easy to endorse such arrangements. However, we must consider the perspective of first-time attendees. What message does it convey to them, especially given that many people tend to overlook important information?

Additionally, let’s pose another question alongside Courtney’s concerns: What if the venue decides to eject someone (for any reason) in the middle of a WordCamp? When relying on someone else’s premises, this possibility exists.

In summary, I implore organizers not to allow venues with religious affiliations. Doing so may inadvertently alienate even more people than WordPress already does.

Note: I’m sharing these thoughts anonymously from a newly created account to freely express my perspective without fear of reprisal.
Junko Nukaga 9:45 am on May 27, 2024

I think it is good to consider this again.
I have a friend who is not allowed in religious institutions other than his own religion. (It doesn’t matter if it’s used for worship or not.)
There may never be many of them, but for those people, the current rules would be safe.
I wanted to know more cultural factors of more people in more countries, because I may only see stories of people in my country (Japan) and around me.
Koji Kuno 12:59 am on May 28, 2024

As a Japanese person, I believe that there are many Japanese who think they do not believe in a particular religion if they do not take the initiative to participate in religions and their activities.

So, even if a WordPress event is held at a facility related to religion, I feel that there are many people in Japan who can participate in it without having any special thoughts. (I don’t have any evidence about this ratio, though.)

However, in Japan, when an event is held at a facility owned by a certain religious group, people are sometimes concerned that they may be solicited or mediated by the group.

We think it is very nice that WordPress events are held in a wide variety of venues. However, it is possible that there are others who have these ideas. I feel that if this proposal is adopted, there will be more problems to solve and more things to consider.

Also, it may be just my feeling, but I sometimes feel that there are some differences in understanding of the existing guidelines at WordPress MeetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. around Japan.

If this proposal is adopted, there is a possibility that WordPress events will be held with the purpose of promoting or mediating religious activities in the background.

So, I can only imagine the difficulty of securing a venue in Japan, but in my opinion, I think it would be better to keep the existing guidelines.

If this proposal is to be adopted, I think it is necessary to give consideration to the content considered here.

Translated with DeepL.com (free version)
Jenni McKinnon 6:25 pm on May 28, 2024

I understand the need for more affordable venue options and how venues that are affiliated with a religious group that are open to all can be seen as a great option. It’s an innovative solution.

However, I agree with the other concerns in the comments and wanted to add that I know there are those out there who may be triggered by just being in a religiously-affiliated building, for example, and it’s difficult to know just how many people this would affect; It may very well not be a small group of people.
Nilo Velez 9:16 pm on May 30, 2024

+1 to this.

In Spain there are a lot of Church-owned schools and private universities, but we have never had any problem with them that I know of.

They usually have small religious iconography in some spaces, but they don’t interfere with the events at all.
- Isotta 8:23 am on June 5, 2024
  
  we have never had any problem with them that I know of
  
  I believe that the point is not much about the venue creating problems, but community members who would decide not to attend without being vocal about it.
  
  Personally, I wouldn’t feel comfortable going with my wife or by my own to an event in a Church-owned school or in some political party venues. I wouldn’t feel safer being myself in certain spaces, because of the values some organizations embrace.
Freed 10:08 pm on May 31, 2024

I can see the desire to include religious spaces because they are designed for group gatherings and many cities and towns have either monetary or availability issues that would be eased by this. On the other hand, we’re putting people with religious trauma at risk (and there are a lot of people out there with religious trauma). If they have to speak up and say they don’t want the meetings held in a church, they’re being forced to out themselves, which is extremely damaging. Also, it’s a sad fact that religions can be hostile to each other, and we’re putting people at risk of not attending because they have very different views than the ones espoused by the potential hosting venue. I think this is a case where the majority needs to make the decision with the minority in mind. At very least, if a religious venue is under consideration, there should be an anonymous poll of members to decide whether to use the space. One vote no rules the space out.
Reed Gustow 1:41 am on June 3, 2024

To prevent any misconceptions as to my motives: My recommendation below does not originate from any religious belief at all; quite the contrary. I believe in a strict separation of church and state, and I am not personally religious.

I recommend that the leaders of our WordPress community consider the following modifications of the policy on locations, such as (but not limited to) universities, that themselves have no religious affiliation, but which have a connection to a religiously affiliated organization, such as another university:
1. A location may be used if it is not itself a house of worship – for example, a university affiliated with a religious institution, but not an actual church, mosque, synagogue, etc.
2. The facility agreement that the location management must sign would need to include language forbidding any religious instruction, proselytizing, or any other conveyance of religious content from being directed toward or made available to the attendees of the event, and specifically emphasizing that persons of all religions or none are welcome.
3. The agreement would also need to include our current language regarding inclusiveness, adherence to the Code of ConductCode of Conduct “A code of conduct is a set of rules outlining the norms, rules, and responsibilities or proper practices of an individual party.” - Wikipedia, and other provisions meant to provide a safe and welcoming environment for the event.

The policy modifications I am recommending would open more locations in which our community members could hold large events, and this increased availability could result in more convenient locations, reduced costs, and the possibility of exposing more students to our wonderful WordPress project.
Isotta 8:19 am on June 5, 2024

Thank you, @juliarosia, for sharing this proposal.

I’m late to comment, but I hope we can allow folks more time to read and share feedback. I find myself unsure. While understand how updating this rule could create more opportunities to find suitable venues, I personally consider the venue and its management a significant factor when deciding whether to attend an event. I agree with those who have shared that the current rule is protecting many community members. I wouldn’t change it without first agreeing on new guidelines to ensure nobody feels excluded by the venue.

I like @courane01‘s proposal of surveying everyone and analyze the responses before making any decision.
- Isotta 8:29 am on June 5, 2024
  
  provided these venues are not used for religious worship and maintain a policy of openness to hosting events for all, without discrimination.
  
  How can we, as the community team and organizers, ensure that this is respected without creating additional work for organizers and program supporters? I see it as potentially very risky.
  - Nilo Velez 7:16 am on June 11, 2024
    
    I think it would have to be studied on a case to case basis. Some venues are just Church funded (I not a big fan either) while other have strong ties with the Church and very prominent iconography.
    
    So far I have been at WordCamps hosted at several church-owned venues (Colegio San Ignacio de Loyola, Colegio San José SSCC, Universidad de Mondragon), and never had any inference from the Staff, but I’ve had some heated discussions with managers from public spaces, because of their lack of understanding of our code of conductCode of Conduct “A code of conduct is a set of rules outlining the norms, rules, and responsibilities or proper practices of an individual party.” - Wikipedia.
    
    As I said, I think it should be studied on a case to case basis, but keeping the “no by default”
    - Nilo Velez 7:40 am on June 11, 2024
      
      Sorry, I placed this comment in an incorrect thread. I intended it to be a reply to your reply to me
Josh Gellock 8:40 pm on June 14, 2024

Hi, everyone. We are running into a challenge with the existing policy right now. There are many great educational institutions in our Lehigh Valley, but they also have a religious affiliation. You wouldn’t know it by visiting the campus, because many of them look like places of education, not houses of worship. I would love to see this policy broadened so that we can host WordCamps and meetupsMeetup Meetup groups are locally-organized groups that get together for face-to-face events on a regular basis (commonly once a month). Learn more about Meetups in our Meetup Organizer Handbook. at higher educational facilities that might have an affiliation with a religious organization.